23.11.2006, 19:28
Keller: At that point in the AWA, was Curt's attitude, We can make this work. Let's make the AWA competitive and successful again? Or was he looking toward the next step also?
Hall: You know what I did, man? I'm not from up there and it was cold as hell to me, bro. There were a couple of times when I opened my door and it would be like, "Wheewwishheww!" I just closed my door. One time I didn't even go to a show in Wisconsin. The next day Verne (Gagne) called me and said, "Where the hell were you?" I said, "Verne, there was travelers advisory. They said don't drive if you don't have to." He said, "That doesn't matter up here. You were supposed to show up at the show." Blah blah blah blah blah. You see, they'd do all their business in the winter time because, hell, it only gets nice for about three or four weeks up there. And that's when you can't get people to sit in the arena. In the winter time, they do go to the shows. They used to pay great, but then in the summertime, you only work once a month. Like, you get paid great, but you only work two, three shows a month. I remember, I went into Verne and said, "Verne, I got to have more money. I can sell suntan lotion on Cocoa Beach and make a couple grand a week. This is your hometown, bro, it ain't mine." He went, "The money comes later." I said, "My bills come right on time every month." He went, "I can make you a star." I said, "Verne, I don't have to be on your TV to feel good about myself. I like who I am." He goes, "I'm rich!" I said, "Yeah, I wanna be rich, too. How's it feel?" He said, "It feels great!" I said, "I wanna be rich, too, Verne. What the f--?" So I gave him my notice and I finished up.
Keller: That was the moment you decided to leave, because he wouldn't give you a raise.
Hall: It was the weather and sh--. Another thing, too. I guess it sounds egotistical, but I did not want to be the champion on a sinking ship. So I passed that belt to Curt. The AWA was going under, man. I did not want to be known as the guy who sank that ship.
Keller: Do you think Curt realized it was going under, too, or was he still thinking we can make this work?
Hall: I think it did wonders for Curt's career. He got tons of publicity out of it. You know what? I didn't want the publicity. I didn't want it. But I'm different than Curt was. I've spent so much money on therapy, I'm just trying to figure out who I am, all right?
Keller: You worked with Jimmy Garvin & Steve Regal, too. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers, too. Any thoughts on those four guys?
Hall: I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. Jimmy Garvin's a pilot now. He flies for Federal Express or something. He was great. Buddy Rose and Doug Somers were great. We didn't work with them much. They worked with the Rockers the most. That was such a cartoon character. You had the two little pretty boy Rockers, and then you had Buddy and Doug. We didn't get to work with them that much. We worked with the Long Riders a lot, but I thought they both sucked. God bless Scott Irwin. He was wonderful. His brother Bill Irwin's a **** and I don't care if you print that straight out.
Keller: Why is that?
Hall: Because he was a selfish ***** . You know why he hated me? Because I was getting a push and he didn't think I deserved it.
Keller: You weren't happy in the AWA because of the weather and the pay with Verne. Was the overall attitude in the AWA that it was a sinking ship? I'm interested in this because this was right before I started writing the Torch and I'm fascinated with AWA history. I was a fan then, cheering for you, because Hogan abandoned the AWA and you were the replacement guy.
Hall: You know why Hogan left? You ever heard that?
Keller: I've heard a lot of different stories. Hogan told me his version.
Hall: I guess if you heard it from Hulk, you heard the truth.
Keller: (laughs) I wouldn't go that far.
Hall: What I heard, and I don't know how accurate it is. I think it's pretty damn accurate was, Hulk's not a mark. Hulk's a businessman. Anybody who doesn't think that has not spent any time with Hulk. What he wanted was, he had been going around the loop with Nick (Bockwinkel), and let's face it, Hulk was a monster then. He was, like, 330. He's wrestling Nick. I like Nick, but Nick does hit little wrestling moves and all his bullsh-- and all Hulk wanted was in St. Paul, he just wanted to win the belt. He said, "Look, I'll drop it back to ya', but I've been promising the fans for months that I'm gonna win the belt. When you're a babyface, if you don't win eventually, you're f---ed. The way I heard it was, Hulk kinda wanted the belt, and they didn't want to give it to him, and it was adios amigos. He went to Japan then.
Keller: He also had a problem with merchandise money, too. That was at issue.
Hall: Verne was so behind the times on merchandise, I'm sure, any merchandise Hulk was getting was, like, t-shirts. There were no videogames, there were no dolls back then, bro. We're talking the '80s.
Keller: I think he started to realize the potential in it. That was the very beginning of Hulkamania. Vince McMahon takes credit for Hulkamania, but it absolutely was exactly the same act in the WWF that it was in the AWA.
Hall: When Hulk first left Verne, he made huge money in Japan. Then he did the movie. When he went to Vince and he got red-hot, he was making ten million a year reportedly, although who knows? There ain't nobody making ten million a year now.
Keller: Not even close.
Hall: Ten million a year in the '80s, bro? Hooo.
Keller: Greg Gagne was around then, too. Did you have to deal with him much? Was he helping to run the company at that point?
Hall: Yeah he was.
Keller: Was he competent in his job? Was he a lot like Verne? Was he trying to be better and different than Verne?
Hall: It's really hard for me to knock Greg because he's a real kind-hearted person and all that. I actually saw a little footage of him when he inducted his father into the Hall of Fame. Oh my god, he looked rough. But, I mean, to me, I've always thought you gotta look like a wrestler.
Keller: He didn't even try.
Hall: You got any Greg Gagne merchandise in your collection? What about "Jumpin'" Jim Brunzell? Let me get this right. Your finish is a dropkick? I'll never forget the time, I can't remember who, but they brought these heels in to work with the High Flyers. The guys said, "What do you guys do? What do you do off the top?" They said, "We don't do anything off the top?" They said, "Well, you're called the High Flyers, right?" "Well, yeah, yeah." I actually thought they were kinda brutal, but you gotta remember, it was simpler times, man.
Keller: The movie, "The Wrestler," ended with a dropkick. Verne had a soft spot for the dropkick because that was his finisher. He downed Bill Robinson at the end of the movie with it.
Hall: F---in' Billy Robinson is a ****.
Keller: I've heard that. You deal with personally at all?
Hall: I've been around him. He was just one of those bitter old school guys. He's like Lou Thesz, Bruno (Sammartino). "I'm really a tough guy and f--- these guys, I didn't make any money. F--- these guys."
Keller: What about Larry Nelson? He was a cult favorite of mine because he was so off the wall.
Hall: To me, he was a little bit white bread. He was a little bit too much. I prefer the era of wrestling when the announcers started to tell the truth. I liked Jesse Ventura. I liked Gorilla Monsoon. I liked Bobby Heenan. I liked Vince. I liked Perfect. I liked guys where if you missed a move a little bit, they'll say, "Ah, it looked like they missed him with that on." I always wanted to wrestle in front of Jesse Ventura. You know why? I knew I could get over without the office holding me back because Jesse would tell the truth. Because if you did something in front of Jesse and it looked good, he'd go, "Wow, that looked good." At the same time, if somebody did something in front of Jesse and it looked bad - Gorilla, too - they'd go, "I don't think he caught him with all of that." I liked that. I think the referees have to have authority. If there's no rules, there's no heat. I remember when I first went to work for Eric Bischoff, they were doing a divorce angle between Macho (Randy Savage) and Elizabeth and (Ric) Flair, and he was spending her alimony. And they were doing some other sh--. I said, "Wait a minute, we're doing a divorce angle?" Guys would do interviews going, "I'm gonna kill you!" I said, "Eric, no, man. No no no. How long can you go with that sh--?" We've got a weekly program. The belts have to mean something. It has to. It's all about winning and losing matches. Like, me and Shawn wrestled for almost three years. Everybody knew we were friends, but it was, "I'm better than you." "No you're not." "Yes I am." "Well, prove it. I'll be there. I'm the pretty mother f---er with the velvet black hair. After the match, I'll meet you in the bar and guess what, I'll drink it to you, ya' ***** . It's not a hatred thing. I don't think hatred draws money. I think all that negativity is the wrong way to go. I watched TNA the other day and it was so bush. I was watching the guys going, "Somebody's going to die. I'll do anyyyythiiiinnggg!" I'm thinking, "No you won't. You gotta be back next week, you f---in' goof."
Keller: I'm not crazy about promising death to anybody.
Hall: Did you see TNA where they juiced the tag team champs, Angel (Christopher Daniels) and A.J. (Styles)? So guess what? Forty-five minutes go by, they interview them in the back, and they still got juice. How come they're not bandaged up? How come they're not all cleaned up? And why is everybody so mad? That's so basic wrestling interview 101. "Okay, man, I'm gonna get you, I'm gonna kill ya', I'm gonna kill ya'." Why don't you go, "Okay, you got me, man. You're pretty tough. Guess what, I'm pretty tough, too, man. I'm gonna heal up. I'm not gonna think about nothing until I see you again." That's what draws money. Not this ranting and raving bullsh-- that nobody buys.
Keller: If everybody is yelling at the same volume, nobody stands out.
Hall: And they all do it. You can hear it from the kitchen. That's one thing I learned from Jerry Blackwell. Jerry Blackwell used to talk like this [whispering]. Then he'd get real, real quiet [softer]. Like this. You know why? Because you're leaning forward to your TV set then.
Keller: I loved Blackwell's whole act.
Hall: You know why? If somebody's yelling and ranting and raving, blah blah blah blah blah. F---in', you can be in the kitchen making a sandwich, it doesn't matter. You know who I thought was sweet was Jake. I'm a huge fan of Jake the Snake because he had the look, he had the rap, he had the moves, he's money. There's a few guys I patterned my career after. Jake, (Bruiser) Brody, and (Stan) Hansen. Not their moves, but they're mentality. F---, I don't need to throw the Ricky Steamboat deep armdrag. I need to get over. I want to make money. I want to draw money.
Keller: Let's jump from the AWA to your first run in WCW when you were renamed the Diamond Studd.
Hall: I was Scott Hall first, bro. I was Scott Hall going nowhere.
Hall: You know what I did, man? I'm not from up there and it was cold as hell to me, bro. There were a couple of times when I opened my door and it would be like, "Wheewwishheww!" I just closed my door. One time I didn't even go to a show in Wisconsin. The next day Verne (Gagne) called me and said, "Where the hell were you?" I said, "Verne, there was travelers advisory. They said don't drive if you don't have to." He said, "That doesn't matter up here. You were supposed to show up at the show." Blah blah blah blah blah. You see, they'd do all their business in the winter time because, hell, it only gets nice for about three or four weeks up there. And that's when you can't get people to sit in the arena. In the winter time, they do go to the shows. They used to pay great, but then in the summertime, you only work once a month. Like, you get paid great, but you only work two, three shows a month. I remember, I went into Verne and said, "Verne, I got to have more money. I can sell suntan lotion on Cocoa Beach and make a couple grand a week. This is your hometown, bro, it ain't mine." He went, "The money comes later." I said, "My bills come right on time every month." He went, "I can make you a star." I said, "Verne, I don't have to be on your TV to feel good about myself. I like who I am." He goes, "I'm rich!" I said, "Yeah, I wanna be rich, too. How's it feel?" He said, "It feels great!" I said, "I wanna be rich, too, Verne. What the f--?" So I gave him my notice and I finished up.
Keller: That was the moment you decided to leave, because he wouldn't give you a raise.
Hall: It was the weather and sh--. Another thing, too. I guess it sounds egotistical, but I did not want to be the champion on a sinking ship. So I passed that belt to Curt. The AWA was going under, man. I did not want to be known as the guy who sank that ship.
Keller: Do you think Curt realized it was going under, too, or was he still thinking we can make this work?
Hall: I think it did wonders for Curt's career. He got tons of publicity out of it. You know what? I didn't want the publicity. I didn't want it. But I'm different than Curt was. I've spent so much money on therapy, I'm just trying to figure out who I am, all right?
Keller: You worked with Jimmy Garvin & Steve Regal, too. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers, too. Any thoughts on those four guys?
Hall: I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. Jimmy Garvin's a pilot now. He flies for Federal Express or something. He was great. Buddy Rose and Doug Somers were great. We didn't work with them much. They worked with the Rockers the most. That was such a cartoon character. You had the two little pretty boy Rockers, and then you had Buddy and Doug. We didn't get to work with them that much. We worked with the Long Riders a lot, but I thought they both sucked. God bless Scott Irwin. He was wonderful. His brother Bill Irwin's a **** and I don't care if you print that straight out.
Keller: Why is that?
Hall: Because he was a selfish ***** . You know why he hated me? Because I was getting a push and he didn't think I deserved it.
Keller: You weren't happy in the AWA because of the weather and the pay with Verne. Was the overall attitude in the AWA that it was a sinking ship? I'm interested in this because this was right before I started writing the Torch and I'm fascinated with AWA history. I was a fan then, cheering for you, because Hogan abandoned the AWA and you were the replacement guy.
Hall: You know why Hogan left? You ever heard that?
Keller: I've heard a lot of different stories. Hogan told me his version.
Hall: I guess if you heard it from Hulk, you heard the truth.
Keller: (laughs) I wouldn't go that far.
Hall: What I heard, and I don't know how accurate it is. I think it's pretty damn accurate was, Hulk's not a mark. Hulk's a businessman. Anybody who doesn't think that has not spent any time with Hulk. What he wanted was, he had been going around the loop with Nick (Bockwinkel), and let's face it, Hulk was a monster then. He was, like, 330. He's wrestling Nick. I like Nick, but Nick does hit little wrestling moves and all his bullsh-- and all Hulk wanted was in St. Paul, he just wanted to win the belt. He said, "Look, I'll drop it back to ya', but I've been promising the fans for months that I'm gonna win the belt. When you're a babyface, if you don't win eventually, you're f---ed. The way I heard it was, Hulk kinda wanted the belt, and they didn't want to give it to him, and it was adios amigos. He went to Japan then.
Keller: He also had a problem with merchandise money, too. That was at issue.
Hall: Verne was so behind the times on merchandise, I'm sure, any merchandise Hulk was getting was, like, t-shirts. There were no videogames, there were no dolls back then, bro. We're talking the '80s.
Keller: I think he started to realize the potential in it. That was the very beginning of Hulkamania. Vince McMahon takes credit for Hulkamania, but it absolutely was exactly the same act in the WWF that it was in the AWA.
Hall: When Hulk first left Verne, he made huge money in Japan. Then he did the movie. When he went to Vince and he got red-hot, he was making ten million a year reportedly, although who knows? There ain't nobody making ten million a year now.
Keller: Not even close.
Hall: Ten million a year in the '80s, bro? Hooo.
Keller: Greg Gagne was around then, too. Did you have to deal with him much? Was he helping to run the company at that point?
Hall: Yeah he was.
Keller: Was he competent in his job? Was he a lot like Verne? Was he trying to be better and different than Verne?
Hall: It's really hard for me to knock Greg because he's a real kind-hearted person and all that. I actually saw a little footage of him when he inducted his father into the Hall of Fame. Oh my god, he looked rough. But, I mean, to me, I've always thought you gotta look like a wrestler.
Keller: He didn't even try.
Hall: You got any Greg Gagne merchandise in your collection? What about "Jumpin'" Jim Brunzell? Let me get this right. Your finish is a dropkick? I'll never forget the time, I can't remember who, but they brought these heels in to work with the High Flyers. The guys said, "What do you guys do? What do you do off the top?" They said, "We don't do anything off the top?" They said, "Well, you're called the High Flyers, right?" "Well, yeah, yeah." I actually thought they were kinda brutal, but you gotta remember, it was simpler times, man.
Keller: The movie, "The Wrestler," ended with a dropkick. Verne had a soft spot for the dropkick because that was his finisher. He downed Bill Robinson at the end of the movie with it.
Hall: F---in' Billy Robinson is a ****.
Keller: I've heard that. You deal with personally at all?
Hall: I've been around him. He was just one of those bitter old school guys. He's like Lou Thesz, Bruno (Sammartino). "I'm really a tough guy and f--- these guys, I didn't make any money. F--- these guys."
Keller: What about Larry Nelson? He was a cult favorite of mine because he was so off the wall.
Hall: To me, he was a little bit white bread. He was a little bit too much. I prefer the era of wrestling when the announcers started to tell the truth. I liked Jesse Ventura. I liked Gorilla Monsoon. I liked Bobby Heenan. I liked Vince. I liked Perfect. I liked guys where if you missed a move a little bit, they'll say, "Ah, it looked like they missed him with that on." I always wanted to wrestle in front of Jesse Ventura. You know why? I knew I could get over without the office holding me back because Jesse would tell the truth. Because if you did something in front of Jesse and it looked good, he'd go, "Wow, that looked good." At the same time, if somebody did something in front of Jesse and it looked bad - Gorilla, too - they'd go, "I don't think he caught him with all of that." I liked that. I think the referees have to have authority. If there's no rules, there's no heat. I remember when I first went to work for Eric Bischoff, they were doing a divorce angle between Macho (Randy Savage) and Elizabeth and (Ric) Flair, and he was spending her alimony. And they were doing some other sh--. I said, "Wait a minute, we're doing a divorce angle?" Guys would do interviews going, "I'm gonna kill you!" I said, "Eric, no, man. No no no. How long can you go with that sh--?" We've got a weekly program. The belts have to mean something. It has to. It's all about winning and losing matches. Like, me and Shawn wrestled for almost three years. Everybody knew we were friends, but it was, "I'm better than you." "No you're not." "Yes I am." "Well, prove it. I'll be there. I'm the pretty mother f---er with the velvet black hair. After the match, I'll meet you in the bar and guess what, I'll drink it to you, ya' ***** . It's not a hatred thing. I don't think hatred draws money. I think all that negativity is the wrong way to go. I watched TNA the other day and it was so bush. I was watching the guys going, "Somebody's going to die. I'll do anyyyythiiiinnggg!" I'm thinking, "No you won't. You gotta be back next week, you f---in' goof."
Keller: I'm not crazy about promising death to anybody.
Hall: Did you see TNA where they juiced the tag team champs, Angel (Christopher Daniels) and A.J. (Styles)? So guess what? Forty-five minutes go by, they interview them in the back, and they still got juice. How come they're not bandaged up? How come they're not all cleaned up? And why is everybody so mad? That's so basic wrestling interview 101. "Okay, man, I'm gonna get you, I'm gonna kill ya', I'm gonna kill ya'." Why don't you go, "Okay, you got me, man. You're pretty tough. Guess what, I'm pretty tough, too, man. I'm gonna heal up. I'm not gonna think about nothing until I see you again." That's what draws money. Not this ranting and raving bullsh-- that nobody buys.
Keller: If everybody is yelling at the same volume, nobody stands out.
Hall: And they all do it. You can hear it from the kitchen. That's one thing I learned from Jerry Blackwell. Jerry Blackwell used to talk like this [whispering]. Then he'd get real, real quiet [softer]. Like this. You know why? Because you're leaning forward to your TV set then.
Keller: I loved Blackwell's whole act.
Hall: You know why? If somebody's yelling and ranting and raving, blah blah blah blah blah. F---in', you can be in the kitchen making a sandwich, it doesn't matter. You know who I thought was sweet was Jake. I'm a huge fan of Jake the Snake because he had the look, he had the rap, he had the moves, he's money. There's a few guys I patterned my career after. Jake, (Bruiser) Brody, and (Stan) Hansen. Not their moves, but they're mentality. F---, I don't need to throw the Ricky Steamboat deep armdrag. I need to get over. I want to make money. I want to draw money.
Keller: Let's jump from the AWA to your first run in WCW when you were renamed the Diamond Studd.
Hall: I was Scott Hall first, bro. I was Scott Hall going nowhere.