23.11.2006, 19:31
Keller: It was an amazing moment in Raw history.
Hall: Let me tell you this. I remember asking Vince, "Should I jump up and go, ‘No, no! Two!'" He goes, "No. Don't do that. You have to say it was a fluke, but you have to be beat." Which is crucial. If I jumped up and went, "No, two! Two!" I had to lay there and get beat, then jump up and go, "What the f–––!" It was the highlight of my career. I've done lots of jobs. I mean, I don't care about losing. I'm one of them cats who can lay there and lose and they still chant my name. I ain't blowing my own horn, but check the footage.
Keller: Promoters took advantage of that a little bit, I think, over time, where you were so confident you could survive a job that I think you kind of became a guy they would go to more often than maybe was best.
Hall: Well, one thing, too, that the Wolf Pac innovated was, if you beat one of us, you beat all three of us. Because, how could you beat Kid, with me and Kev on the apron. F––– no, we'd make the save. So we invented the pin all three guys. I don't think anybody in history has ever done that. You can't find three top heels who would all lay down on a pay–per–view. We did it, and we did it repeatedly. We did it at house shows. We didn't care. You know why? Because it was the right thing to do. We always thought about giving the people their money's worth. You know what I always thought about—you know, by the time the people get to the parking lot, man, they aren't talking about who won or who lost. They're going, "Man, what a great show. I'm coming back next time." I mean, they may be talking about who won or lost, and it doesn't matter, but I want 'em saying, "Wow, what a show. I'm coming back next time."
Keller: Do you think with UFC pushing the smaller guys who are shorter than Waltman and in most cases thicker than Waltman, but just in general size-wise, they walk down the street in street clothes, and they look like they go to the gym, but a lot of average guys think they could take him in a bar fight. That really gets in the way of Vince McMahon promoting smaller guys. When it comes down to it, you get your money's worth if a smaller guy who's a great athlete and has a good personality and he knows how to work smart—not just doing a bunch of spots to do a bunch of spots—I think a smaller guy can make money, but I get the feeling Vince doesn't think that or he doesn't have time for them. I think he could learn from UFC and learn from what happened with Waltman that the public doesn't care. Like you said, they just want their money's worth.
Hall: Well, first of all, Kid's way different than anybody you'll ever meet. Have you ever met Vince face to face?
Keller: Yes, several times.
Halls: He's a big man. When he's taking supplements, he's even bigger. And Vince has always preferred big men. Back before all the cool commercials and all the different ways to get guys over, you had to parade your guys around in public appearances and they had to be big, scary looking muscle guys. Hulk carried Cyndi Lauper to the Emmys in a tuxedo with the sleeves cut off. I mean, Tacky McTacky. But you gotta remember, that's the way we did business back then. I ain't knocking Hulk (Hogan) at all because I love Hulk. But I'm saying that the way business was done back then. But now, I don't know. I still think Vince prefers big guys.
Keller: Without getting personal, how long did you date (your boss Brad Siegel) niece, Emily, and how did the relationship end?
Hall: Um, gosh. I remember the first time I asked her out, I'll never forget, this was in San Antonio. I don't know if you've ever been to San Antonio, but they have the River Walk there. It's this cool little river walk with restaurants and bistros and stuff like that. So, the office had put us up at a real nice hotel right there by the River Walk. We were all walking together to a night club and it was Emily and one of her girlfriends who was also a production assistant and Dave Penzer - remember him, he was a ring announcer. So we're walking along and I said, "Hey, ladies, I don't know if you know this about San Antonio, but this river is scented. It smells like lilacs. If you get close, you can smell it." So they went "really?" And they got near it. I just kind of did the fake like push on the back thing. They went, "Whoa!" Then Penzer goes, "You don't got a hair on your ass if you don't shove them in there." So I just turned around. Penzer is such an idiot. I just turned right around and took an immediately U-turn, got right behind Penzer, and shoved him right in the f---in' river.
Keller: Good for you.
Hall: (laughs) It was hilarious. So then Penzer had to go back to the hotel soaking wet. So I'm sitting in a bar in San Antonio and I'm asking Emily to go out with me. "Come on, go out with me. Give me a chance. Give me a chance." I'm sitting there with (WCW producer) Keith Mitchell. He said, "What the f---, give the guy a chance." I have no idea that she's hooked up politically and all that. I don't care. She's gorgeous. So we hooked up and dated. At that time, I was dating a lot of girls. I dated Emily and a lot of other girls. I kind of edited it. I told her, "Don't waste your time with me." At that time in my life, I was kind of putting myself through hell. My personal demons and all that blah blah blah bullsh--. I told her, "Baby doll, you can do way better than me. Good luck, I love you, I'll always think about you. Go do your deal." It was not that long ago that I emailed her a little bit. Then I talked to her on the phone. I was about to get on a plane. She works in New York now for that CSI: SVU show. I was about to go see her. I was so close to jumping on a plane and going back up there. But I went, "Scott, don't." Because, I would have gone for my own selfish reasons, but I said don't do it to her. I felt like, I don't know, some of my friends say I should have just stayed with her. I just felt that I'm 13 years older than her and I felt like that's way, way too much. I said, "What the f---. When I'm an old man, you going to be a young broad." I'm, like, no. But, I don't know. Get me back on track, Wade.
Keller: What if, in the NWO run, Hulk Hogan decided he did not want to turn heel?
Hall: Okay, Bash at the Beach, when Hulk turned heel, we were at the arena - and you know what's so funny, too, is the whole thing of who's the third man? I think it was (Randy) Savage, (Lex) Luger, and Sting versus me and Kev and we didn't reveal who the third man was. Who was the third man? They milked it. It turned out to be one of the hottest angles in wrestling. And the thing is, too, I remember asking (Eric) Bischoff one time, I said, "Eric, if you could go back in time, would you have done it this way or what would you have done?" He said, "No, I woulda had three guys in the ring doing interviews against three guys, like we're gonna beat you up, no we're gonna beat you up." The thing is, Hulk was doing a movie or something in L.A. at the time and because he had control over his character, you gotta remember, here is a guy who has been a hero all across the world for most of his career, and does he want to turn heel. He has no idea if this NWO thing is going to blow up. He doesn't know. So, you know, he's gotta protect his investment, plus he's gettin' paid. But you know what else, too, at one time they couldn't even put Hulk on Nitro. The marks were so smart, they knew when they went on the air and they would start chanting, "Hogan sucks! Hogan sucks!" Cause I remember him telling me one time, he says, "Bro, that stuff gets to you. You know, it hurts your feelings." I said, "F--- yeah, it does." When you're supposed to be getting cheered and they boo ya' and sh--, it hurts your feelings. It's like I told you, when you get knocked in the dirt sheets or people bury you, f---, it hurts your feelings. We're all human. Now I'm babbling again. Get me back on track.
Keller: So what if Hogan had not turned and joined the NWO?
Hall: Okay, the funny part is, now we're at the arena. We're in Daytona Beach, we're in the Ocean Center. But Hulk is not there yet. He's coming on a private jet from L.A. The pay-per-view has already started and we don't know what's happening. Bischoff told Sting, "What we might do is turn you heel." So Sting's boo-boo facing. He doesn't wanna do that. We don't know if Hulk's gonna agree to it or not. It was Kev's finish. Kev laid out the finish where Hulk doesn't come out until the end. They took Lex out on a stretcher, so then it was down to two-on-two. Bang bang bang, we're doing whatever we're doing. Then all of a sudden Hulk comes out and me and Kev roll out of the ring like we're scared, like, "What the f---?!" Then Hulk drops the leg on Mach. It was f---in' sweet. It was the first time I've ever been in a building where I was fearing for my safety. The marks hit the ring. You can see it on tape. If you watch the PPV back, you can see it on film where a mark makes it over the railing and into the ring and Kev knocks the f---er out with a flipper. Kev's so tall, he hits him with the forearm shot. And bang. And this is a good sized guy, a 260 pound guy. Kev drops him with the flipper. People were throwing sh-- and stuff like that. I had never been in that kind of environment before. But at the same time, it was the first time I have ever been in the ring with Hulk. So I remember saying, "I just want this in my scrapbook." It's the same thing like wrestling (Ric) Flair or being in the ring with Harley Race. One time I got to do an interview with "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers. When I worked for Verne, the had the deal going with Mario Savoldi. He used to run a little thing on the East Coast. I did some little show there for them. And "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers - I made a road trip with the "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers. I was in early 20s. I don't know how old he was then, but he was still, like, cool at f--- with the big nugget jewelry. I was marking out. Like I said earlier, I think the wrestlers are the biggest marks of all. I don't know, man.
Keller: Great story. Back to the Hogan turn, you knew about Bobby Heenan's gaff on commentary.
Hall: Heenan got in a lot of heat for that. If you watch when Vince (McMahon) bought the company, if you watch Vince's "Back in Black" DVD, when Hulk comes to the ring, they edit out the part where (Heenan says that). You can hear Dusty going, "Hulkamania's in the building." Heenan goes, "Yeah, but whose side's he on?" Heenan's always putting himself over. But Vince is so slick, on his DVD, they edit that out. That was f--- up.
Keller: Nobody watching on PPV was thinking Hogan was going to turn. That was the last thing on the minds of viewers.
Hall: Exactly. Why the f--- would Bobby Heenan try to put himself over.
Keller: I don't think Bobby was with it that day.
Hall: I just think he made a crucial error in judgment. I think it hurt his career. I think he got such major heat with Bischoff that it hurt him contractually.
Keller: Imagine, you've got the biggest heel turn in the history of the industry.
Hall: Exactly. Here comes Hulk Hogan. The people go f---ing crazy. It was just, I mean, it was so cool, me and Kev were looking at each other going, "What the f---?!" All we wanted to do was get next to Hulk in the hard camera so they could get it on film. I remember one time, too, like, Hulk was gonna do his interview. I was standing next to him. He said, "I always stand on Gene (Okerlund)'s left side, you gotta move to the other side. Him and Gene had done interviews for so many years. I went, "No problem. Whatever you say there, big man." It was one of them things to go down in history as part something sweet that happened, you know?
Hall: Let me tell you this. I remember asking Vince, "Should I jump up and go, ‘No, no! Two!'" He goes, "No. Don't do that. You have to say it was a fluke, but you have to be beat." Which is crucial. If I jumped up and went, "No, two! Two!" I had to lay there and get beat, then jump up and go, "What the f–––!" It was the highlight of my career. I've done lots of jobs. I mean, I don't care about losing. I'm one of them cats who can lay there and lose and they still chant my name. I ain't blowing my own horn, but check the footage.
Keller: Promoters took advantage of that a little bit, I think, over time, where you were so confident you could survive a job that I think you kind of became a guy they would go to more often than maybe was best.
Hall: Well, one thing, too, that the Wolf Pac innovated was, if you beat one of us, you beat all three of us. Because, how could you beat Kid, with me and Kev on the apron. F––– no, we'd make the save. So we invented the pin all three guys. I don't think anybody in history has ever done that. You can't find three top heels who would all lay down on a pay–per–view. We did it, and we did it repeatedly. We did it at house shows. We didn't care. You know why? Because it was the right thing to do. We always thought about giving the people their money's worth. You know what I always thought about—you know, by the time the people get to the parking lot, man, they aren't talking about who won or who lost. They're going, "Man, what a great show. I'm coming back next time." I mean, they may be talking about who won or lost, and it doesn't matter, but I want 'em saying, "Wow, what a show. I'm coming back next time."
Keller: Do you think with UFC pushing the smaller guys who are shorter than Waltman and in most cases thicker than Waltman, but just in general size-wise, they walk down the street in street clothes, and they look like they go to the gym, but a lot of average guys think they could take him in a bar fight. That really gets in the way of Vince McMahon promoting smaller guys. When it comes down to it, you get your money's worth if a smaller guy who's a great athlete and has a good personality and he knows how to work smart—not just doing a bunch of spots to do a bunch of spots—I think a smaller guy can make money, but I get the feeling Vince doesn't think that or he doesn't have time for them. I think he could learn from UFC and learn from what happened with Waltman that the public doesn't care. Like you said, they just want their money's worth.
Hall: Well, first of all, Kid's way different than anybody you'll ever meet. Have you ever met Vince face to face?
Keller: Yes, several times.
Halls: He's a big man. When he's taking supplements, he's even bigger. And Vince has always preferred big men. Back before all the cool commercials and all the different ways to get guys over, you had to parade your guys around in public appearances and they had to be big, scary looking muscle guys. Hulk carried Cyndi Lauper to the Emmys in a tuxedo with the sleeves cut off. I mean, Tacky McTacky. But you gotta remember, that's the way we did business back then. I ain't knocking Hulk (Hogan) at all because I love Hulk. But I'm saying that the way business was done back then. But now, I don't know. I still think Vince prefers big guys.
Keller: Without getting personal, how long did you date (your boss Brad Siegel) niece, Emily, and how did the relationship end?
Hall: Um, gosh. I remember the first time I asked her out, I'll never forget, this was in San Antonio. I don't know if you've ever been to San Antonio, but they have the River Walk there. It's this cool little river walk with restaurants and bistros and stuff like that. So, the office had put us up at a real nice hotel right there by the River Walk. We were all walking together to a night club and it was Emily and one of her girlfriends who was also a production assistant and Dave Penzer - remember him, he was a ring announcer. So we're walking along and I said, "Hey, ladies, I don't know if you know this about San Antonio, but this river is scented. It smells like lilacs. If you get close, you can smell it." So they went "really?" And they got near it. I just kind of did the fake like push on the back thing. They went, "Whoa!" Then Penzer goes, "You don't got a hair on your ass if you don't shove them in there." So I just turned around. Penzer is such an idiot. I just turned right around and took an immediately U-turn, got right behind Penzer, and shoved him right in the f---in' river.
Keller: Good for you.
Hall: (laughs) It was hilarious. So then Penzer had to go back to the hotel soaking wet. So I'm sitting in a bar in San Antonio and I'm asking Emily to go out with me. "Come on, go out with me. Give me a chance. Give me a chance." I'm sitting there with (WCW producer) Keith Mitchell. He said, "What the f---, give the guy a chance." I have no idea that she's hooked up politically and all that. I don't care. She's gorgeous. So we hooked up and dated. At that time, I was dating a lot of girls. I dated Emily and a lot of other girls. I kind of edited it. I told her, "Don't waste your time with me." At that time in my life, I was kind of putting myself through hell. My personal demons and all that blah blah blah bullsh--. I told her, "Baby doll, you can do way better than me. Good luck, I love you, I'll always think about you. Go do your deal." It was not that long ago that I emailed her a little bit. Then I talked to her on the phone. I was about to get on a plane. She works in New York now for that CSI: SVU show. I was about to go see her. I was so close to jumping on a plane and going back up there. But I went, "Scott, don't." Because, I would have gone for my own selfish reasons, but I said don't do it to her. I felt like, I don't know, some of my friends say I should have just stayed with her. I just felt that I'm 13 years older than her and I felt like that's way, way too much. I said, "What the f---. When I'm an old man, you going to be a young broad." I'm, like, no. But, I don't know. Get me back on track, Wade.
Keller: What if, in the NWO run, Hulk Hogan decided he did not want to turn heel?
Hall: Okay, Bash at the Beach, when Hulk turned heel, we were at the arena - and you know what's so funny, too, is the whole thing of who's the third man? I think it was (Randy) Savage, (Lex) Luger, and Sting versus me and Kev and we didn't reveal who the third man was. Who was the third man? They milked it. It turned out to be one of the hottest angles in wrestling. And the thing is, too, I remember asking (Eric) Bischoff one time, I said, "Eric, if you could go back in time, would you have done it this way or what would you have done?" He said, "No, I woulda had three guys in the ring doing interviews against three guys, like we're gonna beat you up, no we're gonna beat you up." The thing is, Hulk was doing a movie or something in L.A. at the time and because he had control over his character, you gotta remember, here is a guy who has been a hero all across the world for most of his career, and does he want to turn heel. He has no idea if this NWO thing is going to blow up. He doesn't know. So, you know, he's gotta protect his investment, plus he's gettin' paid. But you know what else, too, at one time they couldn't even put Hulk on Nitro. The marks were so smart, they knew when they went on the air and they would start chanting, "Hogan sucks! Hogan sucks!" Cause I remember him telling me one time, he says, "Bro, that stuff gets to you. You know, it hurts your feelings." I said, "F--- yeah, it does." When you're supposed to be getting cheered and they boo ya' and sh--, it hurts your feelings. It's like I told you, when you get knocked in the dirt sheets or people bury you, f---, it hurts your feelings. We're all human. Now I'm babbling again. Get me back on track.
Keller: So what if Hogan had not turned and joined the NWO?
Hall: Okay, the funny part is, now we're at the arena. We're in Daytona Beach, we're in the Ocean Center. But Hulk is not there yet. He's coming on a private jet from L.A. The pay-per-view has already started and we don't know what's happening. Bischoff told Sting, "What we might do is turn you heel." So Sting's boo-boo facing. He doesn't wanna do that. We don't know if Hulk's gonna agree to it or not. It was Kev's finish. Kev laid out the finish where Hulk doesn't come out until the end. They took Lex out on a stretcher, so then it was down to two-on-two. Bang bang bang, we're doing whatever we're doing. Then all of a sudden Hulk comes out and me and Kev roll out of the ring like we're scared, like, "What the f---?!" Then Hulk drops the leg on Mach. It was f---in' sweet. It was the first time I've ever been in a building where I was fearing for my safety. The marks hit the ring. You can see it on tape. If you watch the PPV back, you can see it on film where a mark makes it over the railing and into the ring and Kev knocks the f---er out with a flipper. Kev's so tall, he hits him with the forearm shot. And bang. And this is a good sized guy, a 260 pound guy. Kev drops him with the flipper. People were throwing sh-- and stuff like that. I had never been in that kind of environment before. But at the same time, it was the first time I have ever been in the ring with Hulk. So I remember saying, "I just want this in my scrapbook." It's the same thing like wrestling (Ric) Flair or being in the ring with Harley Race. One time I got to do an interview with "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers. When I worked for Verne, the had the deal going with Mario Savoldi. He used to run a little thing on the East Coast. I did some little show there for them. And "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers - I made a road trip with the "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers. I was in early 20s. I don't know how old he was then, but he was still, like, cool at f--- with the big nugget jewelry. I was marking out. Like I said earlier, I think the wrestlers are the biggest marks of all. I don't know, man.
Keller: Great story. Back to the Hogan turn, you knew about Bobby Heenan's gaff on commentary.
Hall: Heenan got in a lot of heat for that. If you watch when Vince (McMahon) bought the company, if you watch Vince's "Back in Black" DVD, when Hulk comes to the ring, they edit out the part where (Heenan says that). You can hear Dusty going, "Hulkamania's in the building." Heenan goes, "Yeah, but whose side's he on?" Heenan's always putting himself over. But Vince is so slick, on his DVD, they edit that out. That was f--- up.
Keller: Nobody watching on PPV was thinking Hogan was going to turn. That was the last thing on the minds of viewers.
Hall: Exactly. Why the f--- would Bobby Heenan try to put himself over.
Keller: I don't think Bobby was with it that day.
Hall: I just think he made a crucial error in judgment. I think it hurt his career. I think he got such major heat with Bischoff that it hurt him contractually.
Keller: Imagine, you've got the biggest heel turn in the history of the industry.
Hall: Exactly. Here comes Hulk Hogan. The people go f---ing crazy. It was just, I mean, it was so cool, me and Kev were looking at each other going, "What the f---?!" All we wanted to do was get next to Hulk in the hard camera so they could get it on film. I remember one time, too, like, Hulk was gonna do his interview. I was standing next to him. He said, "I always stand on Gene (Okerlund)'s left side, you gotta move to the other side. Him and Gene had done interviews for so many years. I went, "No problem. Whatever you say there, big man." It was one of them things to go down in history as part something sweet that happened, you know?