23.11.2006, 19:32
Keller: You had mentioned earlier that heels do not tell the truth, whether it's in wrestling or movies or whatever.
Hall: Well, I mean, ideally you don't because it just makes you a babyface.
Keller: Did you guys, though, not at times, if not a lot of the time, play into the fans' cheers and say things that you knew were cool and you knew the fans would cheer? This plays into what you just said about it being more important to be over than a heel or a babyface. But you guys did that a lot. You guys were cast as heels, but if I'm a babyface, the last people I wanted to take on were you guys because you guys were good at getting cheered.
Hall: But see, the one thing that I will say is, like you said, we cared more about getting over. We always wanted to get over. And yeah, a lot of interviews were shoots. We would f---in' shoot with you and f---n' bury ya'. But you know what made us heels? We'd put you over. You could f---in' beat us 1-2-3, then we're gonna gang bang ya, then a bunch of f---in' NWO guys are going to hit the ring and we're gonna beat you up and we're gonna spray paint ya', but we did tons of jobs. So I think what makes you a heel is you lose. That's one thing, too, I've been watching a little bit of TNA, because they keep calling me, and what I think down there is a couple weeks ago I saw Christian do an interview and I never was really a big fan of Christian, but I saw him do an interview and I thought it was excellent. Of course, he was kind of burying Sting, but he told the truth. Everything he said, you kinda went, "Well, yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean." I think, you know, there are two ways to look at it. Business-wise, I'm sure Sting didn't like it, and business-wise you might go, well, what the f---, what the f---. At the same time, I'd rather have a guy over because to me, and I like Sting and I respect him and I give him all his props, but he's like luke warm. And to me, Christian is like the hottest thing they got in TNA. The one interview I saw him give, I was so impressed by, that if I knew himI don't know himbut if I knew him, I would have called him and said, "What a f---n't interview." I would have liked to have called him and said, "Bro, f---in' way to go, keep it up." Because, I just think that's the way the business should be. I think that people should help each other and pass it on and give encouragement. He did an interview, it wasn't one of those in-the-ring interviews; he did a thing where he was sitting in the back and he just talked. He was excellent. It was a thing where he tuned on Sting a few weeks ago, and he was excellent. He was excellent.
Some of the other stuff I saw, sometimes I wanna pull for TNA, but I go, what the f--- are you doin'? Like, they did a match a few weeks ago where the LAX juiced A.J. (Styles) and Christopher Daniels. They got color in the first match of the night, which is cool. Okay, fine, everybody's getting color now; it's back in vogue. These guys are getting color. Fine. But they don't come back to them right away. A half hour later, they come to these guys in the locker room and they still got the juice. I'm thinking, no, man, you should have a bandage on and be cleaned up by now. Your shirt shouldn't be still ripped open; 30, 45 minutes have gone by. What the f--- are you doing? And I always hated things where they gothis is one of those things too where I used to talk about with Bischoffwhen I first got there, they were doing an angle where (Ric) Flair was with Elizabeth and they were spending Macho's alimony. I said, "Let me get this right, we're doing a f---in' alimony angle? How negative can you get, Eric? What the f--- is this? It's supposed to be about winning and losing. It's not about, "I hate you, I'm gonna kill you." Cause when they finally came to Daniels and A.J. in the back, A.J. didn't talk, Daniels talked. They talked about, "Next time somebody's gonna die!" What the f--- is that? Nobody's gonna die. What are you f---in' talkin' about. That's why when me and Shawn wrestled each other, our whole deal was, "I'm better than you." "No you're not." "Yes I am." "No you're not" "Yes I am" "Well, prove it." "Okay. I'll see you in the ring. I'll be that pretty mother f---er with the jet-black hair." It's all about winning and losing. I never understood all that, "I'm gonna kill you!" No you're not. I mean, and who wants their kids watching that kind of stuff? Get me back on track, man.
Keller: One babyface who entered the picture and completely took over was Goldberg. He walked in, didn't know much about wrestling, but had that look. He looked just enough like Steve Austin, had just enough charisma, had just enough size, and he was booked against a number of established guys and just walked right through them, one after another after another. And the fans liked him enough initially, he had enough charisma and he's beaten everybody like nobody's ever beat a anybody before, and he's over huge, but he can't work. And that's a problem. When it comes time for a competitive match, can Bill Goldberg deliver? That was the problem.
Hall: Plus, he's a mark. He's a mark for himself. I hooked Bill Goldberg up with my agent. He represents me, Kev, Kid, Hunter, Dusty, Jesse Ventura, ton of guys. Barry Bloom. I've got the guaranteed money from Turner. Anyway, his first road trip ever was Roanoke, Virginia. So I'm standing at the baggage carrousel. Goldberg's standing there. I don't know Goldberg, but he's standing there, I'm standing there. I said, "Who you riding with, man?" He said, "Oh, I'm by myself." I said, "Look man, I get free cars. Wanna ride with me? Ride with me if you want. I know where everything is." Because I've been to Roanoke 300 times. I know where the gym is, I know where the restaurants are, I know where the arena is, know what I mean? And Goldberg is just a greenhorn. "So, you can ride with me if you want, bro. It's free." He went, "All right." Then we're renting a car and I said, "Look, I ain't know no ***** or nothin', but I get free rooms, too, so if you wanna room with me, it's all on Uncle Ted, so if you wanna room with me, cool. If you don't, I understand. But if you wanna save some dough, it's all on Uncle Ted. So we ride together. I'm talkin' to him and I know how people helped me when I started. People always talked to me and helped me learn how to work. I was around the Freebirds. When I was working for Verne, I had the pleasure of being around the Freebirds. I'm a huge Freebird mark. And they taught me how to work. I learned, like I was saying before, act like a star. Don't walk to the ring like a f---in' jabroni. F---in' walk to the ring like you're the f---in' sh--. I remember, too, one time Michael Hayes, I showed up at the show and I was, like, 15 minutes late. And I got screamed at. Michaels Hayes pulled me aside and said, "Hey, kid, if you're going to be late to a show, be an hour late. Then they'll just be so f---in' happy you showed up, they won't care." He said, "Don't show up 15 minutes late, dummy."
With Goldberg, what happened was, in my opinion, and I have to qualify everything by saying in my opinionsee, Eric's big criticism was all he did was buy Vince's talent. Eric broke out Turner's checkbook and bought Vince's talent. Eric never made anybody. Which was accurate. So, Eric not being that astute of a wrestling guy, took Goldberg and then built him, but I was totally against the undefeated gimmick. I used to tell Eric, "Eric, if you make him undefeated, as soon as he does a job, he's dead. He needs to be human, vulnerable." But, that's how this whole Goldberg thing actually started. The funny part was, when he did lose, it was me. I shocked him with a f---in' stun gun and Kev pinned him.
Keller: It seems like you guys were irritated by him. It sounds like you tried to create one, but he just resisted and didn't understand.
Hall: I think, I don't know, I can't speak for Bill. I respect Bill very much. I don't know him very well. I respect him. What he did was good. He sold merchandise and sold some tickets, but to me, had the NWO not been so hotI mean, he came along at the perfect time. Had sh-- not been so red-hot, there would have been no Goldberg.
Keller: Did he appreciate that at all? Did he understand that he couldn't have walked in two years earlier or two years later and had the same success?
Hall: No way. In my opinion, no f---in' way. If he had come in there prior to the NWO, he'd have just been another f---in' jabrone. I remember one time talkin' to Bill before he began "Goldberg!" He was just a regular guy and you could, like, talk to him. I hooked him up with Barry Bloom. I made him f---in' wealthy. I'm sitting there one time and he goes, "Man, a lot of people tell me I look too much like The Man." I said, "What?" He goes, "A lot of people tell me I look too much like Austin." I said, "I don't think so. Who gives a f---? F--- Austin. Do your deal. Who gives a f---? So what, you got a shaved head and a goattee and black tights and black boots? I said, f--- it, man. What are you gonna, grow your hair out?" I remember he actually came to me one time and said, "A lot of people tell me I look too much like The Man." I said, "Who?" He said, "Austin, back when Austin was red hot." I said, "I don't think so. I don't see it at all. F--- it." Bill was not a very good businessman, in my opinion.
Keller: How could he have been a better businessman. He made a lot of money in a short period of time?
Hall: Don't get me wrong. Yeah, he made a ton of money. I did not enjoy wrestling Bill. For that matter, I did not enjoy wrestling Austin, either. I did not enjoy wrestling Austin at all.
Keller: What about wrestling Goldberg was not enjoyable?
Hall: See, I always thought, I'll never forget, when I first started wrestling Shawn (Michaels) and he came out of that Rockers gimmick and he was a tag team guy, and Marty f---ed off, so they're giving Shawn the singles push. Shawn used to have to do spots where Marty would dropkick and Shawn would dropkick a guy and then they'd both dropkick him and he'd take a bump, especially a guy my size. So when I started working with Shawn, I went, "Well, f--- that." I just started selling. I used to sell for Kid, anybody. Barry Horowitz, it doesn't matter. Like, punch me, bang, and I'll sell it. Because as long as the camera is on me, let me display my ability. The thing about Bill was, in my opinion, he became an cyborg. He didn't sell. Remember how the Road Warriors used to be? You piledrive them. They'd just stand up and go, "Wahhhhh!"
Keller: Who can't get over doing that?
Hall: Sure, but how much longevity are you gonna get out of that? Who can you work with? Know what I mean? After you squash everybody, you're f---n's over. So, in my opinion, that was the trap that Bill fell into. I don't want to say Bill didn't sell, but I want to say that he got a little caught up in the things and I think also he had so many people telling him things. You gotta remember, here's a guy who is really new to the business and he's on top and he's got a lot of guys feeding sh-- into his ear. He's got guys like me and Kev talking to him. Then he's got other guys saying, "Hey, don't trust those f---ers, they'll f---in' f--- you over, man." So he's got so much stuff going on in his mind that I think he was just green and, I don't know.
Hall: Well, I mean, ideally you don't because it just makes you a babyface.
Keller: Did you guys, though, not at times, if not a lot of the time, play into the fans' cheers and say things that you knew were cool and you knew the fans would cheer? This plays into what you just said about it being more important to be over than a heel or a babyface. But you guys did that a lot. You guys were cast as heels, but if I'm a babyface, the last people I wanted to take on were you guys because you guys were good at getting cheered.
Hall: But see, the one thing that I will say is, like you said, we cared more about getting over. We always wanted to get over. And yeah, a lot of interviews were shoots. We would f---in' shoot with you and f---n' bury ya'. But you know what made us heels? We'd put you over. You could f---in' beat us 1-2-3, then we're gonna gang bang ya, then a bunch of f---in' NWO guys are going to hit the ring and we're gonna beat you up and we're gonna spray paint ya', but we did tons of jobs. So I think what makes you a heel is you lose. That's one thing, too, I've been watching a little bit of TNA, because they keep calling me, and what I think down there is a couple weeks ago I saw Christian do an interview and I never was really a big fan of Christian, but I saw him do an interview and I thought it was excellent. Of course, he was kind of burying Sting, but he told the truth. Everything he said, you kinda went, "Well, yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean." I think, you know, there are two ways to look at it. Business-wise, I'm sure Sting didn't like it, and business-wise you might go, well, what the f---, what the f---. At the same time, I'd rather have a guy over because to me, and I like Sting and I respect him and I give him all his props, but he's like luke warm. And to me, Christian is like the hottest thing they got in TNA. The one interview I saw him give, I was so impressed by, that if I knew himI don't know himbut if I knew him, I would have called him and said, "What a f---n't interview." I would have liked to have called him and said, "Bro, f---in' way to go, keep it up." Because, I just think that's the way the business should be. I think that people should help each other and pass it on and give encouragement. He did an interview, it wasn't one of those in-the-ring interviews; he did a thing where he was sitting in the back and he just talked. He was excellent. It was a thing where he tuned on Sting a few weeks ago, and he was excellent. He was excellent.
Some of the other stuff I saw, sometimes I wanna pull for TNA, but I go, what the f--- are you doin'? Like, they did a match a few weeks ago where the LAX juiced A.J. (Styles) and Christopher Daniels. They got color in the first match of the night, which is cool. Okay, fine, everybody's getting color now; it's back in vogue. These guys are getting color. Fine. But they don't come back to them right away. A half hour later, they come to these guys in the locker room and they still got the juice. I'm thinking, no, man, you should have a bandage on and be cleaned up by now. Your shirt shouldn't be still ripped open; 30, 45 minutes have gone by. What the f--- are you doing? And I always hated things where they gothis is one of those things too where I used to talk about with Bischoffwhen I first got there, they were doing an angle where (Ric) Flair was with Elizabeth and they were spending Macho's alimony. I said, "Let me get this right, we're doing a f---in' alimony angle? How negative can you get, Eric? What the f--- is this? It's supposed to be about winning and losing. It's not about, "I hate you, I'm gonna kill you." Cause when they finally came to Daniels and A.J. in the back, A.J. didn't talk, Daniels talked. They talked about, "Next time somebody's gonna die!" What the f--- is that? Nobody's gonna die. What are you f---in' talkin' about. That's why when me and Shawn wrestled each other, our whole deal was, "I'm better than you." "No you're not." "Yes I am." "No you're not" "Yes I am" "Well, prove it." "Okay. I'll see you in the ring. I'll be that pretty mother f---er with the jet-black hair." It's all about winning and losing. I never understood all that, "I'm gonna kill you!" No you're not. I mean, and who wants their kids watching that kind of stuff? Get me back on track, man.
Keller: One babyface who entered the picture and completely took over was Goldberg. He walked in, didn't know much about wrestling, but had that look. He looked just enough like Steve Austin, had just enough charisma, had just enough size, and he was booked against a number of established guys and just walked right through them, one after another after another. And the fans liked him enough initially, he had enough charisma and he's beaten everybody like nobody's ever beat a anybody before, and he's over huge, but he can't work. And that's a problem. When it comes time for a competitive match, can Bill Goldberg deliver? That was the problem.
Hall: Plus, he's a mark. He's a mark for himself. I hooked Bill Goldberg up with my agent. He represents me, Kev, Kid, Hunter, Dusty, Jesse Ventura, ton of guys. Barry Bloom. I've got the guaranteed money from Turner. Anyway, his first road trip ever was Roanoke, Virginia. So I'm standing at the baggage carrousel. Goldberg's standing there. I don't know Goldberg, but he's standing there, I'm standing there. I said, "Who you riding with, man?" He said, "Oh, I'm by myself." I said, "Look man, I get free cars. Wanna ride with me? Ride with me if you want. I know where everything is." Because I've been to Roanoke 300 times. I know where the gym is, I know where the restaurants are, I know where the arena is, know what I mean? And Goldberg is just a greenhorn. "So, you can ride with me if you want, bro. It's free." He went, "All right." Then we're renting a car and I said, "Look, I ain't know no ***** or nothin', but I get free rooms, too, so if you wanna room with me, it's all on Uncle Ted, so if you wanna room with me, cool. If you don't, I understand. But if you wanna save some dough, it's all on Uncle Ted. So we ride together. I'm talkin' to him and I know how people helped me when I started. People always talked to me and helped me learn how to work. I was around the Freebirds. When I was working for Verne, I had the pleasure of being around the Freebirds. I'm a huge Freebird mark. And they taught me how to work. I learned, like I was saying before, act like a star. Don't walk to the ring like a f---in' jabroni. F---in' walk to the ring like you're the f---in' sh--. I remember, too, one time Michael Hayes, I showed up at the show and I was, like, 15 minutes late. And I got screamed at. Michaels Hayes pulled me aside and said, "Hey, kid, if you're going to be late to a show, be an hour late. Then they'll just be so f---in' happy you showed up, they won't care." He said, "Don't show up 15 minutes late, dummy."
With Goldberg, what happened was, in my opinion, and I have to qualify everything by saying in my opinionsee, Eric's big criticism was all he did was buy Vince's talent. Eric broke out Turner's checkbook and bought Vince's talent. Eric never made anybody. Which was accurate. So, Eric not being that astute of a wrestling guy, took Goldberg and then built him, but I was totally against the undefeated gimmick. I used to tell Eric, "Eric, if you make him undefeated, as soon as he does a job, he's dead. He needs to be human, vulnerable." But, that's how this whole Goldberg thing actually started. The funny part was, when he did lose, it was me. I shocked him with a f---in' stun gun and Kev pinned him.
Keller: It seems like you guys were irritated by him. It sounds like you tried to create one, but he just resisted and didn't understand.
Hall: I think, I don't know, I can't speak for Bill. I respect Bill very much. I don't know him very well. I respect him. What he did was good. He sold merchandise and sold some tickets, but to me, had the NWO not been so hotI mean, he came along at the perfect time. Had sh-- not been so red-hot, there would have been no Goldberg.
Keller: Did he appreciate that at all? Did he understand that he couldn't have walked in two years earlier or two years later and had the same success?
Hall: No way. In my opinion, no f---in' way. If he had come in there prior to the NWO, he'd have just been another f---in' jabrone. I remember one time talkin' to Bill before he began "Goldberg!" He was just a regular guy and you could, like, talk to him. I hooked him up with Barry Bloom. I made him f---in' wealthy. I'm sitting there one time and he goes, "Man, a lot of people tell me I look too much like The Man." I said, "What?" He goes, "A lot of people tell me I look too much like Austin." I said, "I don't think so. Who gives a f---? F--- Austin. Do your deal. Who gives a f---? So what, you got a shaved head and a goattee and black tights and black boots? I said, f--- it, man. What are you gonna, grow your hair out?" I remember he actually came to me one time and said, "A lot of people tell me I look too much like The Man." I said, "Who?" He said, "Austin, back when Austin was red hot." I said, "I don't think so. I don't see it at all. F--- it." Bill was not a very good businessman, in my opinion.
Keller: How could he have been a better businessman. He made a lot of money in a short period of time?
Hall: Don't get me wrong. Yeah, he made a ton of money. I did not enjoy wrestling Bill. For that matter, I did not enjoy wrestling Austin, either. I did not enjoy wrestling Austin at all.
Keller: What about wrestling Goldberg was not enjoyable?
Hall: See, I always thought, I'll never forget, when I first started wrestling Shawn (Michaels) and he came out of that Rockers gimmick and he was a tag team guy, and Marty f---ed off, so they're giving Shawn the singles push. Shawn used to have to do spots where Marty would dropkick and Shawn would dropkick a guy and then they'd both dropkick him and he'd take a bump, especially a guy my size. So when I started working with Shawn, I went, "Well, f--- that." I just started selling. I used to sell for Kid, anybody. Barry Horowitz, it doesn't matter. Like, punch me, bang, and I'll sell it. Because as long as the camera is on me, let me display my ability. The thing about Bill was, in my opinion, he became an cyborg. He didn't sell. Remember how the Road Warriors used to be? You piledrive them. They'd just stand up and go, "Wahhhhh!"
Keller: Who can't get over doing that?
Hall: Sure, but how much longevity are you gonna get out of that? Who can you work with? Know what I mean? After you squash everybody, you're f---n's over. So, in my opinion, that was the trap that Bill fell into. I don't want to say Bill didn't sell, but I want to say that he got a little caught up in the things and I think also he had so many people telling him things. You gotta remember, here's a guy who is really new to the business and he's on top and he's got a lot of guys feeding sh-- into his ear. He's got guys like me and Kev talking to him. Then he's got other guys saying, "Hey, don't trust those f---ers, they'll f---in' f--- you over, man." So he's got so much stuff going on in his mind that I think he was just green and, I don't know.