09.12.2011, 09:14
Hier mal Auszuege aus dem Wrestling Observer Newsletter von damals. Dave Meltzer berichtete natuerlich ausfuehrlich von beiden Shows, ua auch die Hintergruende:
-Dave Meltzer zu Wrestlemania IV: “This is horrible, Gorilla. It sure was. I saw it and I still don't believe it. Was it a dream? Was it a nightmare? All I know is in every sense of the word, it was a bomb.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber den Misserfolg von WM IV:”At this time last year Vince McMahon was the omnipotent king of the business. He's still the king, but Sunday he proved he was no longer omnipotent. Jim Crockett kicked Vince McMahon's ass Sunday afternoon, and on the single least likely day of the year for that to happen.
-Dave Meltzer ueber die Produktion:”Wrestlemania made Starrcade '87 look like Starrcade '85. Really, that's too nice. I don't want to fault individuals, but the general appraisal was that everyone on the JCP side gave not only a little extra, but a lot extra, while the Titan side figured that since it was Wrestlemania, everything would fit neatly into place since Vince is a genius and everyone else can coast along.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber das Kommentieren:”Particularly Jesse Ventura didn't seem prepared as he had no good lines and just coasted through. Gorilla Monsoon was so monotone and predictable that you could have replayed any Wrestling Challenge show's commentary on this and it would have sounded the same. Bob Eucker, who did a good job at WM III, didn't do so well this time.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber Hulk Hogan:”The guy is so 'over' that he overshadows the entire promotion. The lack of success of this show was at least in part because Hogan wasn't the featured attraction, but was made 'one of the boys'. One cable TV operator I spoke with today termed the lack of success on PPV due to 'that idiot McMahon devaluing his only attraction.'”
-Dave Meltzer darueber das nichtmal als Savage den Title gewann er im Mittelpunkt stand:“It's like Randy can't even order a taxi cab unless Liz tells Hulk to flag down the cab.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber die miserable Stimmung bei WM 4:”The Trump Plaza should have been called the Trump Mauseleum. It wasn't a wrestling crowd and they reacted to almost nothing, which made those matches where the guys were really putting out still come off as flat and tedious. Vince made a major tactical error taking wrestling away from the wrestling fans with high prices. Sure, he got a huge live gate, but he could have gotten a good live gate anywhere and could have priced it so wrestling fans, and not Casino Hi-Rollers who thought they were watching burlesque, filled the stands. McMahon deserves credit for trying to make wrestling an upper-class entertainment, but on this night the Hi-Rollers ruined his show.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber einige der Steroidenfreaks bei WM IV:”I joke about steroids all the time. I give guys funny nicknames and I suppose I'm the most hated person in the world among heavy steroid users in the wrestling business. However, I'm not trying to be funny here. It was totally embarrassing watching guys really try to work hard, which they aren't used to, and have every match but a few totally die within two minutes because one, and often both guys, couldn't keep up a decent pace for a five minute match. I don't even want to talk about health risks here, because nobody listens. I don't even want to blame the guys here, because the reality of what the promoter is trying to sell forces 82 percent of the Titan workers to become human guinea pigs. However, the tournament was embarrassing. I was embarrassed as someone who appreciates the talents and sacrifices wrestlers make to see this stuff. It wasn't ha-ha, let's watch Lex blow up like lots of fans do, this was a sad situation. Shoot, Luger kept up a pace in his match that put most of Titan's guys to shame.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber das Tournament:”It was a flop and the key issue to the show not selling. There was no specific issue. Like we've said, no belt in wrestling means much of anything anymore. It's the personalities themselves that are the drawing card nowadays. Wrestlemania proves that point. Nobody cared about the tournament matches unless they involved Hogan, or to a lesser degree Savage and DiBiase. The rest were like a waste of time.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber die Vorhersehbarkeit von Savage`s Titlegewinn:“Too many people knew the outcome. On ABC news the morning after the show, it said, `Randy Savage was the winner at Wrestlemania`, but of course everyone knew it since the WWF magazine had printed the result three weeks ago. The WWF claims the magazine report was simply a typographical error. It was pathetic. I'm sorry to go on a tirade at this point, but I'm sick to death of narrow-minded folks blaming me because their promotions aren't interesting enough to draw fans at live gates. If everyone who read this newsletter quit watching matches tomorrow, pro wrestling interest would drop 0.002 percent. In reality, the fans who read newsletters support this business probably in 20 or 30 times greater the proportion than the so-called 'marks' and if this business was to die (which it won't, and I'm not predicting anything of the sort), they'd be the last ones killed off. Again, I'm sorry for the tirade but it's been building up lately. However, for Titan to give away the endings for two major shows in a row, and basically turn the business into a joke, and then not change the ending can't be beneficial in the long run.”
-Dave Meltzer`s Beurteilung der Matches:
WRESTLEMANIA IV
-20-Man Battle Royal. Started out hot, but the crowd only reacted to a few introductions. After 40 seconds, with a crowd in silence, it went into slow motion and became a dud. 1/2*, only for the angle with Bret Hart turning at the end, but the match was a DUD
-Ted DiBiase vs Hacksaw Duggan. It was slow paced. DiBiase did some good work to make it watchable, but that was about it. Shockingly little heat for all of this, considering Andre was at ringside and played a part in the finish. *1/4
-Don Muraco vs Dino Bravo. Muraco was drenched in sweat 2:30 into the match. Soon, but guys were puffing hard. 1/2*
-Ricky Steamboat vs Greg Valentine. Started off good, but Valentine blew up four minutes in. Both guys worked hard, but Valentine's timing was off. Steamboat brought his son Ricky Jr. to the ring before the match. I thought it was a tremendous sight with all the pressures and commotion around that Steamboat was oblivious to everything but his son. I guess they didn't want a babyface match later, but Steamboat deserves a lot better than this. **1/4
-Randy Savage vs Butch Reed. Crowd popped for the finish but was dead throughout. Super-slow, with Reed in control most of the way. *
-One Man Gang vs Bam Bam Bigelow. Give Bigelow credit for wrestling on such a bad knee. Still, it destroyed his agility, which is his gimmick. In reality, this was a negative 1 1/2 star match, but I'll give it a dud considering Bigelow's condition.
-Rick Rude vs Jake Roberts. Rude's tights with lips on the back were an eye-catcher. Awful. Lots of rest holds, and very similar to the Nikita Koloff/Bobby Eaton match at the Bunkhouse Stampede, but maybe worse, because Eaton did a few great moves in that one. Crowd chanted boring. Worst match of the year candidate. -**
-Hercules vs Ultimate Warrior. Warrior ran to the ring and blew up before the match started. The pre-match staredown got zero reaction. No reaction to the full nelson as a finishing move for Hercules. This was actually worse than Rude/Roberts, but I rank it higher because at least it was quick. -* 1/2
-Andre the Giant vs Hulk Hogan. The only match on the show that seemed to have genuine interest. After the match Hulk chased DiBiase, who threw Virgil to him (apparently a future babyface turn by Virgil -- Will we find out his father is a plumber?). Match was terrible, but watchable. Posing wasn't watchable, but it's what the fans came to see. They didn't announce Hogan being eliminated from the tournament until after the posing. *1/4 for the match, but DUD if the posing is included. (My note: Weird ...)
-Ted DiBiase vs Don Muraco. No heat because the crowd was drained after Hogan, but they worked hard and it was a decent, all action match. *1/2
-Randy Savage vs Greg Valentine. Good match, with good pacing and action. **1/4
-Brutus Beefcake vs Honky Tonk Man. The crowd was dead during Honky's pre-match routine. Peggy Sue made more noise at ringside than the other 18,165 folks watching. Beefcake looks amazingly like Davey Boy Smith with his new haircut. You can tell the two apart by watching them wrestle of course. DUD
-Islanders & Bobby Heenan vs Koko Ware & British Bulldogs. Started off decent, but got boring fast. *1/4
-Randy Savage vs One Man Gang. Watchable, but terrible finish. 1/2*
-Demolition vs Strike Force. Good match, but of those in the crowd who responded, they all cheered the heels. This would have been a strong match had the crowd gotten more into it. **1/2
-Randy Savage vs Ted DiBiase. They tried, but the crowd was more focused on the dressing room and the possibility of Hogan coming back out. Not as good as the super SNME match a few weeks prior. Randy told Liz to get Hogan and the crowd again turned away from the match. The post-match was all focused on Hogan and Liz. **1/4
CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS
-- Only 6,000 fans were in attendance, but they were rabid.
-Jimmy Garvin vs Mike Rotunda. **1/4
-Midnight Express vs Fantastics. Classic Memphis brawl. So much action that the cameramen could barely keep up, and they used tables, chairs and tennis racquets, and brawled a lot outside the ring. Eaton did a bulldog on the table on Rogers, which was laying on the floor. Rogers got an abrasion above his eye and actually had to be hospitalized. Fulton also got a swollen lip. ****1/4 (****1/2 for the match, minus 1/2* for the overused Dusty finish, plus 1/4* for the post-match) (My note: Complicated stuff ...)
-Dusty Rhodes & Road Warriors vs Powers of Pain & Ivan Koloff. Dusty, with face paint wearing a black T-shirt looks like a dead ringer for Dump Matsumoto, except Dump is better looking. *
-Lex Luger & Barry Windham vs Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard. Tully actually didn't get much of a reaction, considering he decked Magnum on TBS the day before, and it seems the real heat from the angle is on JJ Dillon. Luger's red tights made him look "radioactive" on some screens apparently. ***1/2
-- Ric Flair vs Sting. Started slow, but the heat never died and it was never dull. No wrestler in the business could have put on the performance Flair did here. He was so good I almost thought Sting was going to stand there in awe of him. Sting held up his end, although it was obvious Flair was carrying the match. Jim Ross did an excellent job the whole show, but especially in the first 25 minutes of selling the importance and intensity of the holds. ****3/4
-Dave Meltzer zu Wrestlemania IV: “This is horrible, Gorilla. It sure was. I saw it and I still don't believe it. Was it a dream? Was it a nightmare? All I know is in every sense of the word, it was a bomb.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber den Misserfolg von WM IV:”At this time last year Vince McMahon was the omnipotent king of the business. He's still the king, but Sunday he proved he was no longer omnipotent. Jim Crockett kicked Vince McMahon's ass Sunday afternoon, and on the single least likely day of the year for that to happen.
-Dave Meltzer ueber die Produktion:”Wrestlemania made Starrcade '87 look like Starrcade '85. Really, that's too nice. I don't want to fault individuals, but the general appraisal was that everyone on the JCP side gave not only a little extra, but a lot extra, while the Titan side figured that since it was Wrestlemania, everything would fit neatly into place since Vince is a genius and everyone else can coast along.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber das Kommentieren:”Particularly Jesse Ventura didn't seem prepared as he had no good lines and just coasted through. Gorilla Monsoon was so monotone and predictable that you could have replayed any Wrestling Challenge show's commentary on this and it would have sounded the same. Bob Eucker, who did a good job at WM III, didn't do so well this time.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber Hulk Hogan:”The guy is so 'over' that he overshadows the entire promotion. The lack of success of this show was at least in part because Hogan wasn't the featured attraction, but was made 'one of the boys'. One cable TV operator I spoke with today termed the lack of success on PPV due to 'that idiot McMahon devaluing his only attraction.'”
-Dave Meltzer darueber das nichtmal als Savage den Title gewann er im Mittelpunkt stand:“It's like Randy can't even order a taxi cab unless Liz tells Hulk to flag down the cab.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber die miserable Stimmung bei WM 4:”The Trump Plaza should have been called the Trump Mauseleum. It wasn't a wrestling crowd and they reacted to almost nothing, which made those matches where the guys were really putting out still come off as flat and tedious. Vince made a major tactical error taking wrestling away from the wrestling fans with high prices. Sure, he got a huge live gate, but he could have gotten a good live gate anywhere and could have priced it so wrestling fans, and not Casino Hi-Rollers who thought they were watching burlesque, filled the stands. McMahon deserves credit for trying to make wrestling an upper-class entertainment, but on this night the Hi-Rollers ruined his show.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber einige der Steroidenfreaks bei WM IV:”I joke about steroids all the time. I give guys funny nicknames and I suppose I'm the most hated person in the world among heavy steroid users in the wrestling business. However, I'm not trying to be funny here. It was totally embarrassing watching guys really try to work hard, which they aren't used to, and have every match but a few totally die within two minutes because one, and often both guys, couldn't keep up a decent pace for a five minute match. I don't even want to talk about health risks here, because nobody listens. I don't even want to blame the guys here, because the reality of what the promoter is trying to sell forces 82 percent of the Titan workers to become human guinea pigs. However, the tournament was embarrassing. I was embarrassed as someone who appreciates the talents and sacrifices wrestlers make to see this stuff. It wasn't ha-ha, let's watch Lex blow up like lots of fans do, this was a sad situation. Shoot, Luger kept up a pace in his match that put most of Titan's guys to shame.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber das Tournament:”It was a flop and the key issue to the show not selling. There was no specific issue. Like we've said, no belt in wrestling means much of anything anymore. It's the personalities themselves that are the drawing card nowadays. Wrestlemania proves that point. Nobody cared about the tournament matches unless they involved Hogan, or to a lesser degree Savage and DiBiase. The rest were like a waste of time.”
-Dave Meltzer ueber die Vorhersehbarkeit von Savage`s Titlegewinn:“Too many people knew the outcome. On ABC news the morning after the show, it said, `Randy Savage was the winner at Wrestlemania`, but of course everyone knew it since the WWF magazine had printed the result three weeks ago. The WWF claims the magazine report was simply a typographical error. It was pathetic. I'm sorry to go on a tirade at this point, but I'm sick to death of narrow-minded folks blaming me because their promotions aren't interesting enough to draw fans at live gates. If everyone who read this newsletter quit watching matches tomorrow, pro wrestling interest would drop 0.002 percent. In reality, the fans who read newsletters support this business probably in 20 or 30 times greater the proportion than the so-called 'marks' and if this business was to die (which it won't, and I'm not predicting anything of the sort), they'd be the last ones killed off. Again, I'm sorry for the tirade but it's been building up lately. However, for Titan to give away the endings for two major shows in a row, and basically turn the business into a joke, and then not change the ending can't be beneficial in the long run.”
-Dave Meltzer`s Beurteilung der Matches:
WRESTLEMANIA IV
-20-Man Battle Royal. Started out hot, but the crowd only reacted to a few introductions. After 40 seconds, with a crowd in silence, it went into slow motion and became a dud. 1/2*, only for the angle with Bret Hart turning at the end, but the match was a DUD
-Ted DiBiase vs Hacksaw Duggan. It was slow paced. DiBiase did some good work to make it watchable, but that was about it. Shockingly little heat for all of this, considering Andre was at ringside and played a part in the finish. *1/4
-Don Muraco vs Dino Bravo. Muraco was drenched in sweat 2:30 into the match. Soon, but guys were puffing hard. 1/2*
-Ricky Steamboat vs Greg Valentine. Started off good, but Valentine blew up four minutes in. Both guys worked hard, but Valentine's timing was off. Steamboat brought his son Ricky Jr. to the ring before the match. I thought it was a tremendous sight with all the pressures and commotion around that Steamboat was oblivious to everything but his son. I guess they didn't want a babyface match later, but Steamboat deserves a lot better than this. **1/4
-Randy Savage vs Butch Reed. Crowd popped for the finish but was dead throughout. Super-slow, with Reed in control most of the way. *
-One Man Gang vs Bam Bam Bigelow. Give Bigelow credit for wrestling on such a bad knee. Still, it destroyed his agility, which is his gimmick. In reality, this was a negative 1 1/2 star match, but I'll give it a dud considering Bigelow's condition.
-Rick Rude vs Jake Roberts. Rude's tights with lips on the back were an eye-catcher. Awful. Lots of rest holds, and very similar to the Nikita Koloff/Bobby Eaton match at the Bunkhouse Stampede, but maybe worse, because Eaton did a few great moves in that one. Crowd chanted boring. Worst match of the year candidate. -**
-Hercules vs Ultimate Warrior. Warrior ran to the ring and blew up before the match started. The pre-match staredown got zero reaction. No reaction to the full nelson as a finishing move for Hercules. This was actually worse than Rude/Roberts, but I rank it higher because at least it was quick. -* 1/2
-Andre the Giant vs Hulk Hogan. The only match on the show that seemed to have genuine interest. After the match Hulk chased DiBiase, who threw Virgil to him (apparently a future babyface turn by Virgil -- Will we find out his father is a plumber?). Match was terrible, but watchable. Posing wasn't watchable, but it's what the fans came to see. They didn't announce Hogan being eliminated from the tournament until after the posing. *1/4 for the match, but DUD if the posing is included. (My note: Weird ...)
-Ted DiBiase vs Don Muraco. No heat because the crowd was drained after Hogan, but they worked hard and it was a decent, all action match. *1/2
-Randy Savage vs Greg Valentine. Good match, with good pacing and action. **1/4
-Brutus Beefcake vs Honky Tonk Man. The crowd was dead during Honky's pre-match routine. Peggy Sue made more noise at ringside than the other 18,165 folks watching. Beefcake looks amazingly like Davey Boy Smith with his new haircut. You can tell the two apart by watching them wrestle of course. DUD
-Islanders & Bobby Heenan vs Koko Ware & British Bulldogs. Started off decent, but got boring fast. *1/4
-Randy Savage vs One Man Gang. Watchable, but terrible finish. 1/2*
-Demolition vs Strike Force. Good match, but of those in the crowd who responded, they all cheered the heels. This would have been a strong match had the crowd gotten more into it. **1/2
-Randy Savage vs Ted DiBiase. They tried, but the crowd was more focused on the dressing room and the possibility of Hogan coming back out. Not as good as the super SNME match a few weeks prior. Randy told Liz to get Hogan and the crowd again turned away from the match. The post-match was all focused on Hogan and Liz. **1/4
CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS
-- Only 6,000 fans were in attendance, but they were rabid.
-Jimmy Garvin vs Mike Rotunda. **1/4
-Midnight Express vs Fantastics. Classic Memphis brawl. So much action that the cameramen could barely keep up, and they used tables, chairs and tennis racquets, and brawled a lot outside the ring. Eaton did a bulldog on the table on Rogers, which was laying on the floor. Rogers got an abrasion above his eye and actually had to be hospitalized. Fulton also got a swollen lip. ****1/4 (****1/2 for the match, minus 1/2* for the overused Dusty finish, plus 1/4* for the post-match) (My note: Complicated stuff ...)
-Dusty Rhodes & Road Warriors vs Powers of Pain & Ivan Koloff. Dusty, with face paint wearing a black T-shirt looks like a dead ringer for Dump Matsumoto, except Dump is better looking. *
-Lex Luger & Barry Windham vs Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard. Tully actually didn't get much of a reaction, considering he decked Magnum on TBS the day before, and it seems the real heat from the angle is on JJ Dillon. Luger's red tights made him look "radioactive" on some screens apparently. ***1/2
-- Ric Flair vs Sting. Started slow, but the heat never died and it was never dull. No wrestler in the business could have put on the performance Flair did here. He was so good I almost thought Sting was going to stand there in awe of him. Sting held up his end, although it was obvious Flair was carrying the match. Jim Ross did an excellent job the whole show, but especially in the first 25 minutes of selling the importance and intensity of the holds. ****3/4