PW Torch Scott Hall Interview

[Nefercheperur]

Am 8 September gab es vom PW Torch in Form von Wade Keller ein drei stuendiges Gespraech mit Scott Hall. Daraus entstand ein interessantes und bei Scott Hall selltenes Interview das man auf der Torch Website sich anhoeren kann (wenn man VIP Mitglied ist).

Hall spricht indem Interview, ueber sein Razor Ramon Gimmick, die Clique, sein Wechsel zur WCW 1996, den Monday Night War, die NWO Era, Bobby Heenan und vieles vieles mehr. Hier der Auszug aus dem Interview mit Hall.


Keller: Your Internet biography says you were discovered in a grocery store in late 1984 by Barry Windham. Is that true?
Hall: That's true. I was training with Hiro Matsuda. You know what he used to be, bro? I moved to Tampa. I've never had a real job, bro. I used to tend bar in a strip club. It was the hottest bar in Orlando - the Doll House at the time. I worked three nights a week there and the rest of the time I lifted weights and laid in the sun. I'm 22, 23. I know that the wrestling office is in Tampa. I save up a little money. A couple of my buddies give a hundred backs. I move to Tampa. I don't know a soul. I get an apartment and I join every gym in town. So finally I go to Athlete's Fitness Center. I ran into Kevin Sullivan. One time I did squats with him. I'm hanging around and trying to get in. But see I'm not going to guys, going, "Hey man, how do I get into wrestling? How do I get into wrestling? Because I know they don't want to hear that. So one day in the end, me and Barry are in Publix and we're both looking at steaks. We're picking out steaks. We're standing look at steaks and I say, "Excuse me, you're Barry Windham, right?" He says, "Yeah, how you doin'." Because Barry's cool as f---. I said, "Hey, I'm Scott Hall. How ya' doing, man?" He says, "Hey." I said, "I know the last thing you wanna be is bothered when you're out on your own time, but I'm really trying to break into your business." He said, "What are you doing?" I said, "I'm working out with Hiro Matsuda." He said, "F--- Hiro Matsuda." He's going to have you doing Hindu Squats around the building. Meet me at the Sportatorium tomorrow, one o'clock. I showed up at noon. Cause I know Barry Windham ain't gonna show up. That's Barry Windham. You know who showed up? Barry Windham and Mike Rotundo. You know what they did, too? They didn't [lexicon]bump[/lexicon] me. They bumped each other. They said, "Look, pick him up, slam him like this. Boom boom boom." Then they had me slam them. I didn't get bumps, I gave bumps. Then they had to go to a town and wrestle. Barry was really good to me That's why I was so happy when I had a little bit of stroke with that NWO gimmick to get Barry on the payroll. I did it with (Larry) Zbyszko, too. When I was in the AWA and I was a jobrone, Larry Zbyszko really took care of me one night in Winnipeg. So during commercials when he was a broadcaster during Raw commercial breaks, I used to shoot angles with Zbyszko. I'd toothpick him. I'd just motion at him. (Eric) Bischoff would be standing there. I'd say, look at the man, he's a star, he's money. He got two or three pay-per-views out of it. He wrestled Eric at Starrcade. He did a thing with Dusty where we turned Dusty NWO. Remember when Louie Spicolli was my young boy, man? I mean, when I look back - Kid ([lexicon]Sean Waltman[/lexicon]) was just at my house this weekend. We went through all of these old tapes. I have this old tape library that I've never really watched. We went through all of this stuff, man. It was kinda fun. It got a little fire under my rear end.

Keller: I'm glad you watched that old stuff because it'll help when we talk about it as you go along.
Hall: Well, go on, man. Time for you to ask questions.

Keller: I don't have to talk much, but I'll try to lead the way here. Talk about being a fan growing up and what some of the things were about wrestling that did catch your eye in particular. What attracted you to wrestling?
Hall: My dad was a career army soldier, so we lived in Ft. Rucker, Alabama. So my dad took me. I was eight years old on my birthday. My dad took me and my buddies to a wrestling match, and the main event was a hair match. At eight years old, all my friends would say, It's fake, it's fake, but I don't think it is. I remember I ran down to the ring and grabbed a piece of the guys hair and it still had a piece of scalp on it. I still have the folder and the hair and everything. I remember asking my friends, "Would you let somebody shave your hair, man? Would you let somebody do that to you?" Of course, you all know now, yeah, you get the money right, you shave my hair ***** , I don't care. But back then, I was eight years old. Next month, I'm going to be 48. So that was a long time ago. Times have changed.

I moved to Florida when I was, like, 17. I got into weight lifting, laying in the sun. I always wanted a job that was cool. I was never a very good student. I was a wrestling fan, so what do you do when you wanna wrestle? I just talked to Kid and he told me there's this one kid, Johnny Storm. Kid told me this the other day. He used to be the hugest Razor fan - a huge Razor mark. He would come to town, so I could send him on errands. Go get me a sandwich and silly stuff like that. I know his parents and everything. Kid told me he's the hottest thing in Europe now. That makes me feel kinda good. Because you know what, we smartened him up. We did not kayfabe this kid at all. We told him this is the way it goes, this is where you are. F--- that, don't do that, act like this, do this, do that. We gave him the edited version of being a star. I think so many old timers when I broke in were so selfish because, you gotta remember, that was before the time of guaranteed money. So everybody was real competitive. You know, when I worked for Vince, it wasn't guaranteed money. I was the first guy that Vince ever offered guaranteed money to. A lot of people don't know that. I was the very first guy, and I turned him down.

Keller: Was that when you gave him notice and he tried to keep you?
Hall: I gave him notice. He wanted me to stay there. He offered me a check for 75 grand; I didn't even look at it. I said, "I'm figuring that's what you owe me for now, and now let's talk.

Keller: We'll get into that in detail as we march through your career, because that was obviously a huge moment in the industry's history. When you were getting into heavy training to be a wrestler, did you gain more respect for it? Did you have some preconceived notions that were shattered?
Hall: Well, I came into it like every other big musclehead comes into it. F---, I'm bigger than you. You have to remember, bro, I broke in in the late-'80s when we still sold out business as being real. Know what I mean? The die-hard fans kinda knew it was fake. You know one thing people always say to me, Wade? It never varies. They go, "How much of that sh-- is fake?" I go, "All of it." They go, "Well, I don't know. What about when that guy hit you with a chair? What about when he hit you with a ladder? Don't you hurt? I go, "Yeah, it hurts, man. It hurts like f---, but you gotta understand, in my concept it's fake because it's in the script; I know it's coming. To me, it's either all fake or it's no fake. How can it be partially real? The director says, "Okay, at this point, you get hit with the chair, you get some juice, you do this and you do that." Sometimes the people go, "Is that sh-- fake? I go, "Have you ever seen it? Have you ever seen a match?"

I always thought in my mind, it's not a question of real or fake. It's question of good or not good. Did you have fun? Did you get your money's worth? I always felt if you got your money's worth, f--- it. Are rock concerts real? Theater is not real. Movies aren't real. Did you get your 12, 15 bucks worth or not. I never was hung up on the real or not real sh--.

Keller: Did you find when you were breaking in that the veterans or the guys training you did instill in you more of an old school attitude than the guys today probably get in terms of "protecting" it?
Hall: Well, you know what happened was, I used to do jobs. Remember Rufus R. Jones? Rufus was in his 60s and he looked every bit of it. His finish was two freight trains and a headbutt. Two tackles and then his jumping headbutt. And he's pinning a guy who is 298, f---in' shredded. Back then, whatever, I'm not going to say nothing about - I can admit to nothing, but I was in pretty good shape. Then I'd have to go to a bar or a club or a restaurant and people would come up to you and go, "Wait a minute, that old f---in' black guy couldn't beat you." I always had to go, "You wanna try me? He's tougher than he looks. You wanna try me?" It's so immature, but that's the way the business was, and that's why I broke in. That's what we did.

[Nefercheperur]

Keller: That's what Nick Bockwinkel did in the AWA territory, because I grew up in Minneapolis. Whenever the real-fake issue came up, he'd say, "Try me."
Hall: That's the sweet thing about Verne's hold, because he could choke f---ers out.

Keller: As wrestling evolved, it moved away from that, but there was a time...
Hall: Remember when (Hulk) Hogan choked Richard Beltzer out on TV. He's the comedian and he's on one of those cop shows now. Hulk choked him out with a sleeper on TV, cause the guy asked him to do it. He said to put him in that sleeper hold. Hulk, being f---in' gigantic then. His daughter could do him now. I'm not saying that, but Hogan was huge and powerful. Put him in a sleeper, then what he did was make the mistake of dropping him. And I'm not saying Hulk's culpable of any of this, but the f---in' idiot hit his head and it cost Hulk 250 grand. It probably cost Vince that, or maybe they split it. But what the f---, right? Because, you ask me to put you in a hold, and I do, and now I gotta pay you for it? I don't know, man.

Keller: Do you remember you first match in front of a crowd?
Hall: Although we trained in Florida, Dusty (Rhodes) made me and Dan Spivey a tag team and he sent us to [lexicon]Charlotte[/lexicon]. He took the book in [lexicon]Charlotte[/lexicon]. So really, we just sat on the shelf there and didn't do sh--. I think we were in some tag. We were too big to lose. Spivey is 6-7 and about 330 and I'm 6-6 and about 298 ripped. We're two green to win and too f---in' big to lose, so we don't work much, maybe once every couple of months. At that point, Jim Crockett Promotions owned the [lexicon]Charlotte[/lexicon] Orioles. So we were on the grounds crew out there. We used to sit in the dugout with the ballplayers and then when it rained, we had to pull the tarp out by hand. Sh--, it only rained twice all year, so it wasn't all bad. That was about it. We never worked.

Keller: When you were first in front of a crowd, was that dramatically different than what you imagined it would be like to work in front of a crowd? Were you nervous? Did it come naturally for you to interact with the crowd? Or were you too green to even know better?
Hall: I was green like everybody. I was nervous. At that time, when we did work, we won. I had to work with guys who were more seasoned than me, but they had to put me over, so they weren't bending over backwards to put me over. Today, I have a little bit of an attitude. I consider myself, especially in my NWO years, the most high-paid job guy in the business. One time, [lexicon]Chris Jericho[/lexicon] tells this story. One time I was working with Chris in the old spectrum before they built the other building. Remember when Chris was "[lexicon]Lionheart[/lexicon]" and he'd lean back in the crowd and the people would all gather around him? He's a [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon]. I used to tell him, "Chris, be careful, man. Someone might stab you or something." So we're talking before we go out. They were leading up to a match with me and Lex (Luger) at a pay-per-view with Zbyszko as a special ref because I was shooting an [lexicon]angle[/lexicon] with Zbyszko. So they just want me to squash [lexicon]Jericho[/lexicon] and just keep hitting him with my finish until Zbyszko comes out and stops it. So I talk to Chris and say, "Come here. Look, man. I've been in this building two-hundred times. How many times have you been here?" He went, "Never." I said, "You're supposed to be the [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon], but I think they're going to like me. Let's do this. I'm going to beat you like a job boy and I'm going to pick you up for my finish. We'll figure some cute way out of it, pin me, and then I'll hit you with my finish again and again. Then Zbyszko will come. I said, "Don't tell anybody. I'll take the heat." So what he did was, I beat him like a job boy. I picked him up for my finish and the corner where he could flip his feet off the turnbuckle, boom boom, he flipped me over and pinned me like that." I jumped up after 1-2-3, bang bang bang. I hit him with my finish a couple of times, Zbyszko hits the ring. We still shoot the [lexicon]angle[/lexicon]. When I come back, first Arn Anderson, who was an agent, who gave me the finish in the hallway, he just shakes his head and goes, "You never cease to amaze me!" I said, "Arn, was it good or was it not good?" He said, "It was good. It was good TV." Because what the f---, everybody knows I'm going to squash that jobroni, right? And that's where I told Chris, "Chris, the only way these people are going to pop is if you beat me because every time I f---n' bumped him, they didn't make a sound. But when he pinned me, they exploded. So I'm all about getting their rocks off. It's about is it good TV or bad TV? Like we talked about, is it real or is it fake? Who cares? Is it good or is it bad? I guess I'm a dinosaur?

Keller: How did you end up moving from [lexicon]Charlotte[/lexicon] to the AWA? Were there stops in between?
Hall: I went from [lexicon]Charlotte[/lexicon] to Kansas City.

Keller: With Spivey a American Starship?
Hall: Yeah, but Spivey hated it, so he went back to [lexicon]Charlotte[/lexicon]. Then I met Jack Lanza in St. Louis. Lanza took a look at me and I was wrestling in St. Louis. St. Louis used to be a hot wrestling town and they'd bring talent in from all over. The jobroni guys would drive in from Kansas City, so I was an opening match jobroni guy. I'm in the locker room. Jack Lanza comes up to me and goes, "You ready to make a move, kid?" I looked at him and said, "No, Jack, I ain't ready." He goes, "Everybody sucks when they start." I said, "You know what, if you feel that way, I'm ready." So next thing you know. What happened was, at the same time, I don't know if you know the story about Verne (Gagne) getting the fish hook in his eye. Verne was fish-hooking with his son (Greg Gagne) and Curt Hennig up in Alaska. He caught a fish and took a fish hook right in his eyeball. He was hospitalized, blah blah blah. Jack couldn't get confirmation that I was hired, but they still booked me in some towns. That's when they took me to Winnipeg. You ever hear of the wrestling car game. You're driving down the road. I say [lexicon]Sean Waltman[/lexicon]. It' "W" to you. We always played it. Larry Zbyszko was always my killer. There wasn't many Z's. There was Zeus kind of. So they take me to Winnipeg. Jack takes me to Winnipeg. I've only wrestled in front of three or four hundred people. I go to Winnipeg arena and there's 15,000 people there. I always put Zbyszko over because that night, I look across at who I'm working with, and I go, f---, Larry Zbyszko.

Zbyszko goes broadway with me in Winnipeg. I don't know a thing, but I have the look. And Zbyszko's got good heat. This is a long time ago. Zbyszko's red hot. But I'm nobody, but I got the look. So I'm working with Zbyszko. Found out we're going broadway. He steers me through the whole match. The announcer's counting down. Ten, nine... Zbyszko's got me in the corner. He goes, "Grab my by the hair. Not too hard! Look at the people. Not too long! Okay, punch me. Not too hard! Put me in the corner, what's that finish you do?" Lanza gave me the bulldog. So I was using the bulldog. Boom. The one lesson I've never forgotten and always learned from Larry was so crucial and so man people don't know is, he tells me, "Cover me." And the referee is counting. You know how they do a well-done broadway, which is so rare these days, is the referee is counting, "One-two..." and then ding-ding-ding- ding. Zbyszko's laying there flat out. He says to me, "Jump up like you won." Because you know how in most countouts, the guy looks at the official and looks around like, what the f---, what the f---. Zbyszko told me to jump up like I won. I've never seen another broadway go that way. Because he took such good care of me (then), when I had stroke in Atlanta, I paid him back. That's the way it goes, right?

Keller: But when you got to the AWA, you were not pushed as a green guy who is a few years away from being a star. They had lost Hulk Hogan a relatively short time earlier. You were pushed right off the bat. You were compared to Magnum P.I. You were compared to Hulk Hogan.
Hall: Okay, let me interject here. You know who was burying me on that f---in' TV, and I can't figure out why they brought that f---in' ******* in, fly that ***** from Hawaii to Vegas. I did not pretend to be Magnum. You know who called me Magnum, was Lord James Blears because he lived in Hawaii because he wanted to name drop. He said, "He looks like Magnum P.I." He put so much heat on me because Magnum T.A. was red-hot in [lexicon]Charlotte[/lexicon], so all this ***** did was make me look like I was trying to get rub off of Magnum, who personally, if I was to meet him in an alleyway, I'd beat his - before he got in the accident - I'd beat his f---in' ass. But I couldn't believe it. You have to remember, you're out in that wrestling ring, you got no idea what these pricks are saying. It's not like Vince. Verne was such a f---in' dimwit. He wasn't monitoring what was said. I mean, ohhh. That Lord James Blears did nothing but bury me. You know why? Because he didn't like me. He was some old school wrestling guy. He didn't like me. He was just like Bruno Sammartino. He didn't like the young guys making money.

Wade Keller: You indicated you don't like Magnum T.A. Did you have any run-ins with him personally?
Scott Hall: No. He was a big star when I first got to [lexicon]Charlotte[/lexicon]. But I got nothing bad to say about him. I hope he's doing good. We had a few run-ins, but I ain't gonna bad-mouth him.

Keller: The Magnum P.I. comparisons aside, you were billed as the next big thing in the AWA in the 1985-'86 era. You were given a lot of pressure early on to produce as a top guy.
Hall: Yeah, but can I tell you something? That ship was sinking. I remember being around the Freebirds. I learned a lot from the Freebirds and that's where I created the Wolfpac. Because I was such a big fan of the Freebirds, I wanted me, Kev (Nash), and Kid ([lexicon]Sean Waltman[/lexicon]) to be the Wolfpac because you know they were the same, but they were different. They were brothers. Michael (Hayes) wore the robe; Terry Gordy wore the vest; Buddy Jack (Roberts) wore the baseball sh--, but it was all the same colors, just like me and Kev and Kid. You always had Wolfpac rules. You never knew which two of the three were going to wrestle, and guess what mother f---er? All three of them aren't wrestling. I always thought that was somethin' f---in' special. It had never been done since them. I don't know, I just thought that was the sh--.

Keller: That was the era of bookend tag teams and you guys kind of broke that pattern.
Hall: Exactly. Who you wanna see? Two matching guys? "We're the Road Warriors! Bleaaah!" I just think that's stale. That's why I think me and Kev are the best tag team in the world.

Keller: You and Kev or you and Kid?
Hall: Me and Kev, certainly, and Kid's gonna be there.

Keller: You teamed first with Curt Hennig in the AWA and had a pretty good chemistry. As green as you were at that point, it helped to have someone like Curt there to learn a lot from.
Hall: Curt helped me tremendously. I can't thank him enough.

Keller: Did teaming with him come first or the friendship?
Razor Ramon (photo by Jerry Wilson, PWTorch)
Hall: I have to say this about Curt. When I moved to Kansas City, I was pretty much in my prime physically. I was f--in' jacked, bro. As far as Curt knew, I moved there and we were both babyfaces. I was there to take his job, right? You know what, he went out of his way to show me around town. Every road trip we ever made, Curt drove. He used to come to my apartment and pick me up because I didn't know how to drive in the snow. I'm a Florida boy. But, I mean, he would drive to every town and all the way he was always talkin' to me, teaching me business, teachin' me this, teachin' me that, you know? Another thing, too, is you know what Curt did because he knew it was right because he was second generation? Curt always sold and gave me the hot-tag. He felt that's what the people wanted to see. He always steered me in the right direction. I learned a few habits from him, but I ain't gonna dwell on those. But he was an angel as far as I can say professional wrestling wise.

[Nefercheperur]

Keller: At that point in the AWA, was Curt's attitude, We can make this work. Let's make the AWA competitive and successful again? Or was he looking toward the next step also?
Hall: You know what I did, man? I'm not from up there and it was cold as hell to me, bro. There were a couple of times when I opened my door and it would be like, "Wheewwishheww!" I just closed my door. One time I didn't even go to a show in Wisconsin. The next day Verne (Gagne) called me and said, "Where the hell were you?" I said, "Verne, there was travelers advisory. They said don't drive if you don't have to." He said, "That doesn't matter up here. You were supposed to show up at the show." Blah blah blah blah blah. You see, they'd do all their business in the winter time because, hell, it only gets nice for about three or four weeks up there. And that's when you can't get people to sit in the arena. In the winter time, they do go to the shows. They used to pay great, but then in the summertime, you only work once a month. Like, you get paid great, but you only work two, three shows a month. I remember, I went into Verne and said, "Verne, I got to have more money. I can sell suntan lotion on Cocoa Beach and make a couple grand a week. This is your hometown, bro, it ain't mine." He went, "The money comes later." I said, "My bills come right on time every month." He went, "I can make you a star." I said, "Verne, I don't have to be on your TV to feel good about myself. I like who I am." He goes, "I'm rich!" I said, "Yeah, I wanna be rich, too. How's it feel?" He said, "It feels great!" I said, "I wanna be rich, too, Verne. What the f--?" So I gave him my notice and I finished up.

Keller: That was the moment you decided to leave, because he wouldn't give you a raise.
Hall: It was the weather and sh--. Another thing, too. I guess it sounds egotistical, but I did not want to be the champion on a sinking ship. So I passed that belt to Curt. The AWA was going under, man. I did not want to be known as the guy who sank that ship.

Keller: Do you think Curt realized it was going under, too, or was he still thinking we can make this work?
Hall: I think it did wonders for Curt's career. He got tons of publicity out of it. You know what? I didn't want the publicity. I didn't want it. But I'm different than Curt was. I've spent so much money on therapy, I'm just trying to figure out who I am, all right?

Keller: You worked with Jimmy Garvin & Steve Regal, too. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers, too. Any thoughts on those four guys?
Hall: I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. Jimmy Garvin's a pilot now. He flies for Federal Express or something. He was great. Buddy Rose and Doug Somers were great. We didn't work with them much. They worked with the Rockers the most. That was such a cartoon character. You had the two little pretty boy Rockers, and then you had Buddy and Doug. We didn't get to work with them that much. We worked with the Long Riders a lot, but I thought they both sucked. God bless Scott Irwin. He was wonderful. His brother Bill Irwin's a **** and I don't care if you print that straight out.

Keller: Why is that?
Hall: Because he was a selfish ***** . You know why he hated me? Because I was getting a push and he didn't think I deserved it.

Keller: You weren't happy in the AWA because of the weather and the pay with Verne. Was the overall attitude in the AWA that it was a sinking ship? I'm interested in this because this was right before I started writing the Torch and I'm fascinated with AWA history. I was a fan then, cheering for you, because Hogan abandoned the AWA and you were the replacement guy.
Hall: You know why Hogan left? You ever heard that?

Keller: I've heard a lot of different stories. Hogan told me his version.
Hall: I guess if you heard it from Hulk, you heard the truth.

Keller: (laughs) I wouldn't go that far.
Hall: What I heard, and I don't know how accurate it is. I think it's pretty damn accurate was, Hulk's not a mark. Hulk's a businessman. Anybody who doesn't think that has not spent any time with Hulk. What he wanted was, he had been going around the loop with Nick (Bockwinkel), and let's face it, Hulk was a monster then. He was, like, 330. He's wrestling Nick. I like Nick, but Nick does hit little wrestling moves and all his bullsh-- and all Hulk wanted was in St. Paul, he just wanted to win the belt. He said, "Look, I'll drop it back to ya', but I've been promising the fans for months that I'm gonna win the belt. When you're a [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon], if you don't win eventually, you're f---ed. The way I heard it was, Hulk kinda wanted the belt, and they didn't want to give it to him, and it was adios amigos. He went to Japan then.

Keller: He also had a problem with merchandise money, too. That was at issue.
Hall: Verne was so behind the times on merchandise, I'm sure, any merchandise Hulk was getting was, like, t-shirts. There were no videogames, there were no dolls back then, bro. We're talking the '80s.

Keller: I think he started to realize the potential in it. That was the very beginning of Hulkamania. Vince McMahon takes credit for Hulkamania, but it absolutely was exactly the same act in the WWF that it was in the AWA.
Hall: When Hulk first left Verne, he made huge money in Japan. Then he did the movie. When he went to Vince and he got red-hot, he was making ten million a year reportedly, although who knows? There ain't nobody making ten million a year now.

Keller: Not even close.
Hall: Ten million a year in the '80s, bro? Hooo.

Keller: Greg Gagne was around then, too. Did you have to deal with him much? Was he helping to run the company at that point?
Hall: Yeah he was.

Keller: Was he competent in his job? Was he a lot like Verne? Was he trying to be better and different than Verne?
Hall: It's really hard for me to knock Greg because he's a real kind-hearted person and all that. I actually saw a little footage of him when he inducted his father into the Hall of Fame. Oh my god, he looked rough. But, I mean, to me, I've always thought you gotta look like a wrestler.

Keller: He didn't even try.
Hall: You got any Greg Gagne merchandise in your collection? What about "Jumpin'" Jim Brunzell? Let me get this right. Your finish is a dropkick? I'll never forget the time, I can't remember who, but they brought these heels in to work with the High Flyers. The guys said, "What do you guys do? What do you do off the top?" They said, "We don't do anything off the top?" They said, "Well, you're called the High Flyers, right?" "Well, yeah, yeah." I actually thought they were kinda brutal, but you gotta remember, it was simpler times, man.

Keller: The movie, "The Wrestler," ended with a dropkick. Verne had a soft spot for the dropkick because that was his finisher. He downed Bill Robinson at the end of the movie with it.
Hall: F---in' Billy Robinson is a ****.

Keller: I've heard that. You deal with personally at all?
Hall: I've been around him. He was just one of those bitter old school guys. He's like Lou Thesz, Bruno (Sammartino). "I'm really a tough guy and f--- these guys, I didn't make any money. F--- these guys."

Keller: What about Larry Nelson? He was a cult favorite of mine because he was so off the wall.
Hall: To me, he was a little bit white bread. He was a little bit too much. I prefer the era of wrestling when the announcers started to tell the truth. I liked Jesse Ventura. I liked Gorilla Monsoon. I liked Bobby Heenan. I liked Vince. I liked Perfect. I liked guys where if you missed a move a little bit, they'll say, "Ah, it looked like they missed him with that on." I always wanted to wrestle in front of Jesse Ventura. You know why? I knew I could get over without the office holding me back because Jesse would tell the truth. Because if you did something in front of Jesse and it looked good, he'd go, "Wow, that looked good." At the same time, if somebody did something in front of Jesse and it looked bad - Gorilla, too - they'd go, "I don't think he caught him with all of that." I liked that. I think the referees have to have authority. If there's no rules, there's no heat. I remember when I first went to work for Eric Bischoff, they were doing a divorce [lexicon]angle[/lexicon] between Macho (Randy Savage) and Elizabeth and (Ric) Flair, and he was spending her alimony. And they were doing some other sh--. I said, "Wait a minute, we're doing a divorce [lexicon]angle[/lexicon]?" Guys would do interviews going, "I'm gonna kill you!" I said, "Eric, no, man. No no no. How long can you go with that sh--?" We've got a weekly program. The belts have to mean something. It has to. It's all about winning and losing matches. Like, me and Shawn wrestled for almost three years. Everybody knew we were friends, but it was, "I'm better than you." "No you're not." "Yes I am." "Well, prove it. I'll be there. I'm the pretty mother f---er with the velvet black hair. After the match, I'll meet you in the bar and guess what, I'll drink it to you, ya' ***** . It's not a hatred thing. I don't think hatred draws money. I think all that negativity is the wrong way to go. I watched TNA the other day and it was so bush. I was watching the guys going, "Somebody's going to die. I'll do anyyyythiiiinnggg!" I'm thinking, "No you won't. You gotta be back next week, you f---in' goof."

Keller: I'm not crazy about promising death to anybody.
Hall: Did you see TNA where they juiced the tag team champs, Angel ([lexicon]Christopher Daniels[/lexicon]) and A.J. ([lexicon]Styles[/lexicon])? So guess what? Forty-five minutes go by, they interview them in the back, and they still got juice. How come they're not bandaged up? How come they're not all cleaned up? And why is everybody so mad? That's so basic wrestling interview 101. "Okay, man, I'm gonna get you, I'm gonna kill ya', I'm gonna kill ya'." Why don't you go, "Okay, you got me, man. You're pretty tough. Guess what, I'm pretty tough, too, man. I'm gonna heal up. I'm not gonna think about nothing until I see you again." That's what draws money. Not this ranting and raving bullsh-- that nobody buys.

Keller: If everybody is yelling at the same volume, nobody stands out.
Hall: And they all do it. You can hear it from the kitchen. That's one thing I learned from Jerry Blackwell. Jerry Blackwell used to talk like this [whispering]. Then he'd get real, real quiet [softer]. Like this. You know why? Because you're leaning forward to your TV set then.

Keller: I loved Blackwell's whole act.
Hall: You know why? If somebody's yelling and ranting and raving, blah blah blah blah blah. F---in', you can be in the kitchen making a sandwich, it doesn't matter. You know who I thought was sweet was Jake. I'm a huge fan of Jake the Snake because he had the look, he had the rap, he had the moves, he's money. There's a few guys I patterned my career after. Jake, (Bruiser) Brody, and (Stan) Hansen. Not their moves, but they're mentality. F---, I don't need to throw the Ricky Steamboat deep armdrag. I need to get over. I want to make money. I want to draw money.

Keller: Let's jump from the AWA to your first run in WCW when you were renamed the Diamond Studd.
Hall: I was Scott Hall first, bro. I was Scott Hall going nowhere.

[Nefercheperur]

Keller: When did the Diamond Studd come up in that run, then?
Hall: Ric Flair was [lexicon]booking[/lexicon]. He booked me with Terry Funk twice on TV. The first time I was out with Terry Funk's daughter all night. I didn't do nothing' with her, but I was out all night with her, treating her with a lady. Nothing like that. But the next night that f---er hit me with a branding iron so hard, I got like eight stitches. So blah blah blah, time goes by. I get to next TV, they got me booked with Terry Funk again. I went to Flair - plus I had already called Otto Wanz, this wrestling company in Europe and Austria. I said (to Flair), "Look, I've already put the ***** over on TV once. I'm not doing it again." Flair said, "Nobody's asking you to do it." I said, "Ric, f-- you, man. You're the one calling the shots, you're writing the TVs. Don't f---in' tell me you didn't write this down. I'm not doing it. And by the way, I'm giving my two weeks notice. F--- you!" So I went and worked for Otto then. Then I was kind of unemployed and I came back from working with Otto. But I left on kind of good terms, you know what I mean? I did jobs on the way out. But not on TV. And then I called (Dallas) Page and now I'm coming back with my wife six months pregnant from Europe. I was just going to go work at Sears. I figured I thought I had it, but I guess I don't, so f--- it. I called Page and told him to get me a job. And so that's when the Diamond Studd was born. It could have been way better, but they had me in that jobrini spot.

Keller: It was a weird era for WCW because it seemed like they were trying to find what their niche was. They were no longer the We Wrestle promotion.
Hall: Wade, you know what my only comment has been about it when people ask me about these things? I always make this distinction. WCW is a television program that programs wrestling and the WWE is a wrestling company that programs wrestling. Know what I mean? Turner, they put wrestling on their station, but Vince (McMahon) is a wrestling company that produces and programs wrestling shows. That's the distinction. It's not hard to tell the distinction when you watch the show. I mean, it's like watching good porn and bad porn. Vince's show is way tighter, way better, although it's deteriorating in my opinion. I've always said this, too. You're only as good as your opponent. DX is red hot right now. I want to say kudos to the whole defacing the property and the spray paint. Wow, how original! It's kudos. They're my boys. They're paying me and Kev tributes by copying our sh--. How can DX be DX, just two of them? How long can that last? I just think right now they're the hottest thing in wrestling, without question. Shawn Michaels is one of the most gifted, talented wrestlers and athletes in the world. Hunter is, Paul, whatever you want to call him, is also equally talented. He's super. Between the two of them, they get it. They know how to make money, they know how to do business. But guess what, Wade? Who are they going to work with?

Keller: The McMahons and that's it.
Hall: Gee, wow, that draws money. How many times can you put them (against each other). Now it's Hell in a Cell! Oh gee, a lot of people are going to buy that.

Keller: I think a lot of fans look at DX and they like them from a nostalgia standpoint. They're not the same as the original.
Hall: They need Road Dogg, they need Billy Gunn, they need the whole crew.

Keller: And (Sean) Waltman, more than anybody. I think fans see this as just a short term reunion tour of the band. I don't think they see it as something long-term. I think that does limit them.
Hall: That's why it's withering. Okay, let me ask you this? This may be too soon, because you may want to end (the interview) after this. I ain't tired of talkin' This gets me psyched. What's their main music? What happens if you hear, "Are you ready?" So what happens if they play that and then the arena goes dark, and then you put that (sings music) f--in' NWO porn music? What's gonna happen?

Keller: What would happen if that happened? I don't know.
Hall: Well, would the people just sit there and twiddle their thumbs?

Keller: They would pop because they would anticipate something about to happen that's pretty newsworthy.
Hall: Then put us on the TitanTron. On the Tron. I don't know.

Keller: I want to tie a bow around that first run in WCW. You talked about how it felt like a conglomerate that happened to be running a wrestling show. You hadn't advanced to the WWF yet, but was there anything you took from that experience at that time that you either learned what to do right or what to do wrong given the way the company was run.
Hall: You want to hear a funny story?

Keller: Yeah, of course.
Hall: My good buddy Curt Hennig was working for Vince right? I used to call there once a month. I'd call Pat Patterson's office. I get his secretary. "Can I speak to Pat? Can I speak to Pat?" "He's busy right now." "Well, tell him Scott Hall called." The first time I debuted on Vince's TV, I come in for a tryout, them *****es make me drive from Orlando. So after a sh-- box drive from Orlando, I can't afford no hotel. So I drive right back home. And I got three messages on my phone. So I called Pat. All of a sudden I get right through, boy. Funny as heel. "Hey, Scott, how you doing!" (imitating Pat). That's when I went to the black and the stubble and I changed my look. Pat says, "God damn, Vince loves your look. He loves it. Tell me, did you sign a contract with those guys?" I said, "Pat, I just signed a one year deal with those pricks." I said, "I don't wanna work there. I wouldn't have called your office if I had wanted to work there." You know what he said? He goes, "Don't worry, in a year you'll be able to tell them New York wants you." So, I just put in my time and tried to get over as good as I could.

Keller: So you knew for the last year you were in WCW that you were going to head to (the WWF)?
Hall: Yeah, but Vince still makes you earn it. He makes you earn it. I mean, a year went by. He makes you earn it. You see, I earned it.

Keller: What's the best part of that run in WCW? Was it getting to know Dallas Page?
Hall: Don't get me wrong, I loved Dally and he did a lot of things to help me, but have you ever met Dallas Page?

Keller: Yes.
Hall: He is exhausting.

Keller: (laughs) That's a good word.
Hall: And I'm not. You know what I mean? But Dally is a wonderful person and I wish him nothing but the best, but he was like holy roller.

Keller: It doesn't slow down, it doesn't stop. It's 98 percent him.
Hall: He's a total self-promotion guy. He's always on, you know?

Keller: He doesn't seem to realize it, though?
Hall: You know what? Dallas is an overachiever, man. And you know one thing I will say in all pride is that anybody ever treated me good in this business, I always paid them back. Like, one night in New Orleans in the Super Dome when the NWO was red smokin' hot and it was me, Kev, Hogan, and we might have had Giant. We're growin'. So we called Dallas out. We were offering him a t-shirt. So he takes the t-shirt, puts it on. Kev goes to the corner and stands in the corner and raises his hands in the corner. I pick Dallas's arm and raise it up. Dallas spins me into the Diamond Cutter, bang, peels the t-shirt off, throw it on me, Kev charges him, boom, sidestep Kev, backdrop him over the top rope. F--in' people going crazy. Dallas runs up the crowd in the SuperDome. That was the first time he ever did that and it became his gimmick. He rode up in the SuperDome and it made me feel good because I was paying my boy back, you know. And it made him. He was the first guy to say no to the NWO. It was pretty sweet. But you know how we always talked about it, you gotta have opponents. That's why I was talking about DX before. DX is great and the Outsiders are great. You know, how far can they milk that sh-- with the McMahons? They're gonna need opponents.

Keller: When you did go to the WWF, was it a matter of money at all, or was it total faith that that was the place to be where the most opportunity would be and that's where you wanted to be?
Hall: It was a dream come true, bro. I'll never forget going into a meeting. Vince goes, "Well, I understand..." Because Vince back then, business was different. Everybody was a Bossman or a Firefighter or a Convict. Why can't you just be a wrestler, right? And luckily I had Hennig with me. So we went into Vince's office. He goes, "Well, I understand your father's in the army." See, I knew I was going to meet with Vince, and I had been around six, seven years, so I wasn't that nervous. At this point I figured I had nothing to lose. What are you going to do, send me home? F--- you, man. I'll bounce in a bar. I don't care. Like, when you don't care, you have power. There's two times in this life, in my opinion, you have power. When you have enough power you don't give an F. And when you have so little money, you don't give an F.

At that point, I said, "Vince, you want me to be a G.I. Joe, I'll be the best G.I. Joe I can be. Did you ever see Scarface?" He went, "Wella, uh, no, I didn't." I went, "Say hello to the bad guy." I just started to doing all that schtick with him. And having never seen the movie, Vince thinks I'm a genius. (laughs) Know what I mean? "You need somebody like me, man, so you can point your stinkin' finger and whisper, Look, there goes the bad guy. You're never going to see another bad guy like me." He's looking at me markin' out. He's never seen the movie. He doesn't know I'm doing Tony Montana. He thinks I'm making this sh-- up. He said, "We need a name." I said, "Well, how about Razor?" I had been thinking about it. I had tossed around a few names. I liked Razor. At that time there was Razor Ruddick, the boxer. I went, "I'd kick his monkey-f---in' ass." And Vince started laughing and went, "Fine, fine. We need a last name." So I ran out there and I was taking a p*ss, and Tito ([lexicon]Santana[/lexicon]) was washing his hands. I said, "Tito, I need a last name that starts with an R, man." He went, "Ramon." I went right next to him and said, "Razor Ramon." He said, "That's it." And that was the birth of Razor Ramon.

Wade Keller: At the meeting with Vince (McMahon where you proposed the Razor Ramon gimmick), did you sense there was any apprehension about letting you create your own gimmick?
Scott Hall: But he owned it.

Keller: So it didn't matter then who came up with it. He was cool with that.
Hall: I created it, but he copyrighted it. See, you gotta understand about Vince at that time, had I already licensed Razor Ramon, he wouldn't have used it. He was pretty brutal. I was one of the first guys to ask Vince for more royalties. He told me no. Before I left Vince to WCW, I said, "Can I work in Japan?" Let me have four weeks a year in Japan. I wanna work for you; let me work in Japan. I said, "Vince, I know there is only so much box office money, only so much pay–per–view money, so let me work in Japan. I still wanna work for you. Let me work there. It's their money. It's not yours. You see, back then it was a private company. So if you made more money, Vince made less—and that's the way he looked at it. It was coming out of his pocket. So then he went, "No." I said, "Well, sh––, Vince, I ain't no mathematician, but what about like if you move that point over a little bit on the royalties, the Hall family would really benefit. Would the Vince McMahon even notice the difference?" He went, "Well, no. Maybe in the future, but I'll give you the same thing I give [lexicon]Taker[/lexicon] and Shawn (Michaels) and Diesel" and blah blah blah. I went in with two offers and he turned me down.

[Nefercheperur]

Keller: Did it ever come up in conversation with other top guys about forming a union or some sort of organized labor, either official or just grouping together and going in as a group saying, "Vince, we want a bigger merchandise cut"?
Hall: Well, the closest thing was the Clique. But, you gotta remember, too, with independent contracts, promoters are slick. If I was a promoter, this is what I'd do. I'd go to my top few guys and I'd say, "Look, I'm gonna take care of you and f––– these other guys." Right? Why would you ever let anybody unionize, right?

Keller: That's the whole key—make sure the guys who make 90 percent of the difference are 100 percent happy.
Hall: Yeah, if you take care of the top guys, f––– the other guys. One thing I always remember about Vince, too. I remember my first match in Madison Square Garden; it was with Randy Savage. Half way sold out. My last match there wasn't a pay–per-view and it was sold out, which makes me proud. The music is playing, Vince is there, and I'm stretching, waiting to go out. And he goes, no wait. Make 'em wait. So I went out and all that. Blah blah blah. We had our match. It was what it was. I beat Randy. But, the feeling I got was before you go through the curtain, you're a big star. Then when you come back through the curtain, you're lucky to have a job because there are twenty guys who would do it for less. So keep that in mind. And you better pack your bags and get to the next town. Which is all fair, you know. I signed on for it, you know?

Keller: Do you followed the UFC at all?
Hall: I've been starting to watch it.

Keller: Because, they're pay structure is the same thing. Chuck Liddell gets $250K plus a massive pay-per–view bonus percentage, and you go two spots down on the card and the top payoffs are between two thousand and ten thousand.
Hall: Well, good. F––– them. Whatever. Who's making all the money? Dana White and his partners.

Keller: And they poured a lot of money into it. They lost a lot of money with no guarantee of a return.
Hall: Those guys are beating the f––– out of each other and they ain't making nothin'.

Keller: The lower guys don't make a lot, but Dana White's attitude is, everyone is happy because they're making more than they could make anywhere else. I think that was Vince's attitude. If you're not happy, go see how if the grass is greener elsewhere.
Hall: You have to remember, there is nowhere else to go. There is no place to go, unless you're bad ass enough to go to Japan. There's K1 or one of the bad sons of *****es who go over there, because they're all heavyweights. The UFC guys are all like 205. You go to K1 and they're big sons of guns.

Keller: Pride actually has a heavyweight division and UFC has three guys who are not even at the same level as the top guys in Pride.
Hall: Well, the heavyweights are brutal. At 205 is the money weight. I watched Liddell the other night and I thought it sucks. It was so short.

Keller: That's one of the downsides of UFC. You end up with no guarnatee you're going to see (a good fight). It's like boxing. You don't have a guarantee that it's going to be competitive. At least with wrestling, Vince's contention is that wrestling will outlast MMA, mixed martial arts, "because we have control over the storylines." Dana White's response is, "You can't create reality better than actual reality." The problem is, with UFC, you know there's a chance there's going to be a letdown. It's just like the Super Bowl. It might be 35 to 3, or it might be 6 to 3, or it might be a classic. It depends on whether fans are willing to be patient and take the good with the bad.
Hall: See, I always enjoyed the drama. See, I never had a problem, like I told you before—I don't care if it's real or not real, is it fun or not fun? I don't care about all them crazy naked rear chokelocks and all them armbars and all that sh––. I mean, is it fun, is it not fun, did you get your forty bucks worth or not? Cause, I'll tell you what, with that Liddell thing, that sh–– ended, and then they always have some preliminary guys who you don't even want to watch. Liddell knocked the punk out so early, then they had some other guy and I turned it off. I didn't even wanna watch these guys.

Keller: That's the tough part with UFC. There's good and bad with it being real. The good is, you know it's real, so to a lot of people it makes a difference. Then, to other people, they're going to stick with pro wrestling because they know the main event is going to come last and they know it's going to go 15, 20 minutes. At least in wrestling if it's not a good show, you actually have someone to blame. In UFC, if it's not a good show, sometimes it's just the way the cards fell that day.
Hall: Ask (Ken) Shamrock what he likes better.

Keller: I'd think he likes MMA better.
Hall: Because he's trying to get his rep back.

Keller: That's where his natural passion lies. That's where he's a hero in wrestling. He was kind of just another guy who wasn't pushed quite right (in the WWF) and he didn't quite know how to… Ken's one of those guys, when you were talking about promos earlier, Ken's one of those guys who did a great promo in the mixed martial arts world when he was being himself. Not to compare him to Jake Roberts, but in that same sense, he would just talk calm, with confidence, authoritatively, and he didn't yell. Then he got to WWF and they had him do these yelling and screaming promos.
Hall: Yeah, the angry guy interviews. I just [lexicon]hate[/lexicon] angry guy interviews.

Keller: You had mentioned size, and 205 is where it's at in UFC. I wanted to talk for one second as a sidebar about light-heavyweight wrestlers. When 1-2–3 Kid came along, that was a huge break from WWF tradition that he got a push. So, talk a little bit about the dynamic you had with him, which I'd say broke a size barrier in wrestling. And then talk in general about whether you think smaller guys have a chance to draw money, but just aren't given the chance.
Hall: I'll tell you one thing that led to that, when I first started working with Shawn Michaels, he had come out of that tag team situation. I came in and was working with Shawn, but he'd still have to do spots where one dropkick, double dropkick to get guys down. Because I was considered a pretty big guy. But when I worked with Sean, I said f––– that, man. I used to go down off a punch. To me, if you can't get in trouble, then you're not worth any money. You're limited the number of opponents you can work with. See, you've never been in the ring with Kid, obviously, because Kid will knock your teeth out. Kid is a crowbar. So, I'd rather work with Kev (Nash) than Kid. But I learned to sell. Plus, I learned from Ricky Steamboat that when you're selling, guess what? The camera's on you, bro. You want the camera on you. So, let the guy whip my ass. Put his sh–– over, because I'll tell you one thing, it's a relationship. The better you sell for the guy, of course, the better he's gonna give you a comeback, you know. Then you do whatever the boss tells you to do for the finish.

Keller: What made the dynamic with you and 1–2–3 Kid work so well on camera, because historically, I don't think it gets enough credit for what it changed. Small guys had worked with big guys before, but that was just one of the more successful angles and it broke from what had been the tradition in the WWF. A skinny guy like Sean would not have gotten a push at any other time. What was it about him that made Vince give him the opportunity to get a push?
Hall: Six months before we did the [lexicon]angle[/lexicon] with Kid, Vince called me into his office and he goes, "Scott…" Actually, he always called me Razor. He said, "Razor, the people are starting to chant your name in towns. I know you hear it. We gotta do something about it."
He said, "I don't want to turn you [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon] like every other f–––in' guy where we run in and make a save or some sh–– like that. I got this guy who weighs a hundred and twenty pounds soaking wet." Back then, remember when Global (Wrestling Federation) was on (ESPN)? He said, "I've seen this kid in Texas." I said, "Lightning Kid?" He said, "Yeah, yeah, you know him?" I said, "I don't know him, but I've seen him and I love him."
I said, "You know when he got over with me, Vince?" Because in Global, on the outside, he got thrown out. He had a 20 count to get back in. Instead of ten, it was twenty. So I'm watching the match one time and some guy throws kid out to the floor. Back then, he looked like he was nine. So what he does is, the referee is going "two, three, four…" But Kid knows it's twenty, right? So he lays on his side, puts his elbow under his head, and makes the referee count to eighteen-and-a-half, then he rolls in. When I saw that, I went, "This f–––in' guy knows." Because it was just heat. Plus he could go. So when Vince said that, he says, "Look, we're gonna do this thing. This guy is gonna beat ya'. Then six weeks later, you keep offering him money, six weeks later we're gonna have a rematch for ten grand. He's not going to beat you, but he's going to steal the money and run away. Then what we're gonna do…" This was before we did live TV when we used to syndicated market interviews. He said, "Every heel, no matter what they say about their opponent, right at the end, they're going to go, ‘Oh, speaking of losers, Razor Ramon, what a loser.'" So then he told me, six months ahead of time, you'll work with, I think, (Ted) DiBiase at Summerslam. Just beat him with your finish. And that's what I did. But what worked so cool was all the heels, when you get people talking about ya', that's better than being on TV. So all the other heels kept burying me. Pretty soon, I didn't change, the fans changed. That's the most important thing about turning. Chief Jay Strongbow taught me that. You don't change, the people change. You don't change a move, you don't change nothing, you stay the same. You can't be slappin' hands and all that sh––. Pretty soon, the fans started going, "We don't like you, Razor, but we can't let him say that about ya'." It built for six weeks. We had the rematch. Kid ran off with the money. I don't know, man, it launched his career.

Keller: Yes it did. Were you ever hesitant to sell for somebody of his size?
Hall: No, not at all.

Keller: A lot of guys would be who didn't understand.
Hall: No. I always prided myself on trying to be a television entertainer. It's sports entertainment. I broke in when it was 'rasslin, then Vince made it sports entertainment. I was very happy to be a part of sports entertainment. I had no problem with that. I had no problem with that. I'll tell ya' what, when Kid beat me on Raw, seventy percent of the people thought it was a shoot. I've had guys in Mexico tell me, "Man, his thigh hit you in the head. We thought you were knocked out." If you look at the audience picture, there were actually people with their hands on their heads going, "Oh my god!"

[Nefercheperur]

Keller: It was an amazing moment in Raw history.
Hall: Let me tell you this. I remember asking Vince, "Should I jump up and go, ‘No, no! Two!'" He goes, "No. Don't do that. You have to say it was a fluke, but you have to be beat." Which is crucial. If I jumped up and went, "No, two! Two!" I had to lay there and get beat, then jump up and go, "What the f–––!" It was the highlight of my career. I've done lots of jobs. I mean, I don't care about losing. I'm one of them cats who can lay there and lose and they still chant my name. I ain't blowing my own horn, but check the footage.

Keller: Promoters took advantage of that a little bit, I think, over time, where you were so confident you could survive a job that I think you kind of became a guy they would go to more often than maybe was best.
Hall: Well, one thing, too, that the Wolf [lexicon]Pac[/lexicon] innovated was, if you beat one of us, you beat all three of us. Because, how could you beat Kid, with me and Kev on the apron. F––– no, we'd make the save. So we invented the pin all three guys. I don't think anybody in history has ever done that. You can't find three top heels who would all lay down on a pay–per–view. We did it, and we did it repeatedly. We did it at house shows. We didn't care. You know why? Because it was the right thing to do. We always thought about giving the people their money's worth. You know what I always thought about—you know, by the time the people get to the parking lot, man, they aren't talking about who won or who lost. They're going, "Man, what a great show. I'm coming back next time." I mean, they may be talking about who won or lost, and it doesn't matter, but I want 'em saying, "Wow, what a show. I'm coming back next time."

Keller: Do you think with UFC pushing the smaller guys who are shorter than Waltman and in most cases thicker than Waltman, but just in general size-wise, they walk down the street in street clothes, and they look like they go to the gym, but a lot of average guys think they could take him in a bar fight. That really gets in the way of Vince McMahon promoting smaller guys. When it comes down to it, you get your money's worth if a smaller guy who's a great athlete and has a good personality and he knows how to work smart—not just doing a bunch of spots to do a bunch of spots—I think a smaller guy can make money, but I get the feeling Vince doesn't think that or he doesn't have time for them. I think he could learn from UFC and learn from what happened with Waltman that the public doesn't care. Like you said, they just want their money's worth.
Hall: Well, first of all, Kid's way different than anybody you'll ever meet. Have you ever met Vince face to face?

Keller: Yes, several times.
Halls: He's a big man. When he's taking supplements, he's even bigger. And Vince has always preferred big men. Back before all the cool commercials and all the different ways to get guys over, you had to parade your guys around in public appearances and they had to be big, scary looking muscle guys. Hulk carried Cyndi Lauper to the Emmys in a tuxedo with the sleeves cut off. I mean, Tacky McTacky. But you gotta remember, that's the way we did business back then. I ain't knocking Hulk (Hogan) at all because I love Hulk. But I'm saying that the way business was done back then. But now, I don't know. I still think Vince prefers big guys.

Keller: Without getting personal, how long did you date (your boss Brad Siegel) niece, Emily, and how did the relationship end?
Hall: Um, gosh. I remember the first time I asked her out, I'll never forget, this was in San Antonio. I don't know if you've ever been to San Antonio, but they have the River Walk there. It's this cool little river walk with restaurants and bistros and stuff like that. So, the office had put us up at a real nice hotel right there by the River Walk. We were all walking together to a night club and it was Emily and one of her girlfriends who was also a production assistant and Dave Penzer - remember him, he was a ring announcer. So we're walking along and I said, "Hey, ladies, I don't know if you know this about San Antonio, but this river is scented. It smells like lilacs. If you get close, you can smell it." So they went "really?" And they got near it. I just kind of did the fake like push on the back thing. They went, "Whoa!" Then Penzer goes, "You don't got a hair on your ass if you don't shove them in there." So I just turned around. Penzer is such an idiot. I just turned right around and took an immediately U-turn, got right behind Penzer, and shoved him right in the f---in' river.

Keller: Good for you.
Hall: (laughs) It was hilarious. So then Penzer had to go back to the hotel soaking wet. So I'm sitting in a bar in San Antonio and I'm asking Emily to go out with me. "Come on, go out with me. Give me a chance. Give me a chance." I'm sitting there with (WCW producer) Keith Mitchell. He said, "What the f---, give the guy a chance." I have no idea that she's hooked up politically and all that. I don't care. She's gorgeous. So we hooked up and dated. At that time, I was dating a lot of girls. I dated Emily and a lot of other girls. I kind of edited it. I told her, "Don't waste your time with me." At that time in my life, I was kind of putting myself through hell. My personal demons and all that blah blah blah bullsh--. I told her, "Baby doll, you can do way better than me. Good luck, I love you, I'll always think about you. Go do your deal." It was not that long ago that I emailed her a little bit. Then I talked to her on the phone. I was about to get on a plane. She works in New York now for that CSI: SVU show. I was about to go see her. I was so close to jumping on a plane and going back up there. But I went, "Scott, don't." Because, I would have gone for my own selfish reasons, but I said don't do it to her. I felt like, I don't know, some of my friends say I should have just stayed with her. I just felt that I'm 13 years older than her and I felt like that's way, way too much. I said, "What the f---. When I'm an old man, you going to be a young broad." I'm, like, no. But, I don't know. Get me back on track, Wade.

Keller: What if, in the NWO run, Hulk Hogan decided he did not want to turn heel?
Hall: Okay, Bash at the Beach, when Hulk turned heel, we were at the arena - and you know what's so funny, too, is the whole thing of who's the third man? I think it was (Randy) Savage, (Lex) Luger, and Sting versus me and Kev and we didn't reveal who the third man was. Who was the third man? They milked it. It turned out to be one of the hottest angles in wrestling. And the thing is, too, I remember asking (Eric) Bischoff one time, I said, "Eric, if you could go back in time, would you have done it this way or what would you have done?" He said, "No, I woulda had three guys in the ring doing interviews against three guys, like we're gonna beat you up, no we're gonna beat you up." The thing is, Hulk was doing a movie or something in L.A. at the time and because he had control over his character, you gotta remember, here is a guy who has been a hero all across the world for most of his career, and does he want to turn heel. He has no idea if this NWO thing is going to blow up. He doesn't know. So, you know, he's gotta protect his investment, plus he's gettin' paid. But you know what else, too, at one time they couldn't even put Hulk on Nitro. The marks were so smart, they knew when they went on the air and they would start chanting, "Hogan sucks! Hogan sucks!" Cause I remember him telling me one time, he says, "Bro, that stuff gets to you. You know, it hurts your feelings." I said, "F--- yeah, it does." When you're supposed to be getting cheered and they boo ya' and sh--, it hurts your feelings. It's like I told you, when you get knocked in the dirt sheets or people bury you, f---, it hurts your feelings. We're all human. Now I'm babbling again. Get me back on track.

Keller: So what if Hogan had not turned and joined the NWO?
Hall: Okay, the funny part is, now we're at the arena. We're in Daytona Beach, we're in the Ocean Center. But Hulk is not there yet. He's coming on a private jet from L.A. The pay-per-view has already started and we don't know what's happening. Bischoff told Sting, "What we might do is turn you heel." So Sting's boo-boo facing. He doesn't wanna do that. We don't know if Hulk's gonna agree to it or not. It was Kev's finish. Kev laid out the finish where Hulk doesn't come out until the end. They took Lex out on a stretcher, so then it was down to two-on-two. Bang bang bang, we're doing whatever we're doing. Then all of a sudden Hulk comes out and me and Kev roll out of the ring like we're scared, like, "What the f---?!" Then Hulk drops the leg on Mach. It was f---in' sweet. It was the first time I've ever been in a building where I was fearing for my safety. The marks hit the ring. You can see it on tape. If you watch the PPV back, you can see it on film where a mark makes it over the railing and into the ring and Kev knocks the f---er out with a flipper. Kev's so tall, he hits him with the forearm shot. And bang. And this is a good sized guy, a 260 pound guy. Kev drops him with the flipper. People were throwing sh-- and stuff like that. I had never been in that kind of environment before. But at the same time, it was the first time I have ever been in the ring with Hulk. So I remember saying, "I just want this in my scrapbook." It's the same thing like wrestling (Ric) Flair or being in the ring with Harley Race. One time I got to do an interview with "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers. When I worked for Verne, the had the deal going with Mario Savoldi. He used to run a little thing on the East Coast. I did some little show there for them. And "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers - I made a road trip with the "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers. I was in early 20s. I don't know how old he was then, but he was still, like, cool at f--- with the big nugget jewelry. I was marking out. Like I said earlier, I think the wrestlers are the biggest marks of all. I don't know, man.

Keller: Great story. Back to the Hogan turn, you knew about Bobby Heenan's gaff on commentary.
Hall: Heenan got in a lot of heat for that. If you watch when Vince (McMahon) bought the company, if you watch Vince's "Back in Black" DVD, when Hulk comes to the ring, they edit out the part where (Heenan says that). You can hear Dusty going, "Hulkamania's in the building." Heenan goes, "Yeah, but whose side's he on?" Heenan's always putting himself over. But Vince is so slick, on his DVD, they edit that out. That was f--- up.

Keller: Nobody watching on PPV was thinking Hogan was going to turn. That was the last thing on the minds of viewers.
Hall: Exactly. Why the f--- would Bobby Heenan try to put himself over.

Keller: I don't think Bobby was with it that day.
Hall: I just think he made a crucial error in judgment. I think it hurt his career. I think he got such major heat with Bischoff that it hurt him contractually.

Keller: Imagine, you've got the biggest heel turn in the history of the industry.
Hall: Exactly. Here comes Hulk Hogan. The people go f---ing crazy. It was just, I mean, it was so cool, me and Kev were looking at each other going, "What the f---?!" All we wanted to do was get next to Hulk in the hard camera so they could get it on film. I remember one time, too, like, Hulk was gonna do his interview. I was standing next to him. He said, "I always stand on Gene (Okerlund)'s left side, you gotta move to the other side. Him and Gene had done interviews for so many years. I went, "No problem. Whatever you say there, big man." It was one of them things to go down in history as part something sweet that happened, you know?

[Nefercheperur]

Keller: What would have happened if Hogan had stayed [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon]? One of the criticisms - and it's hard to criticize the first couple of years becaus it was so successful ratings-wise - but one of the early criticisms of the NWO was that you talk about having done a lot of jobs, but on PPV, you were beating the Steiners, you were beating Kevin Sullivan's guys, you were beating Harlem Heat, you were coming out on top of the Four Horsemen. The babyfaces weren't built up as being really strong, and it was weak to begin with, so when Hogan sided with you guys, that left Sting as the only guy, and then after that it was Dallas Page, and then after a while along came [lexicon]Goldberg[/lexicon]. It was such a weak [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon] roster, do you think if Hogan hadn't turned, the NWO could have stayed hot, but it would have been from a longevity standpoint, maybe Hogan as the top [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon] would have worked?
Hall: I think at that point in his career, I think sitting on that jet plane, I'm just guessing, I think sitting on that private jet on the way to Daytona, Hulk had to make a decision. What am I going to do? And I think - he had already seen us for a few weeks. It had been a month or whatever. Me and Kev were building some momentum, we were building some steam. I don't think it would have worked - the whole NWO thing would have never worked without Hulk, in my opinion. Like I said earlier, and I'll repeat it again: Hulk's the f'n man. You gotta remember, we get to tell people we're the guys who turned Hulk into a bad guy. Then they go, "Oh, yeah, I remember you guys." I think, you're asking if Hulk had stayed [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon] and worked against me and Kev, like Hulk & Sting against Hall & Nash, I don't see it.

Keller: The thing is, fans would have turned against Hulk, and they would have cheered you.
Hall: That's what I mean. The whole thing about it, too, was like, we were kinda cool. We came off that New York TV. We were the sh--. One time I remember me and Kev were standing next to Brad Siegel, Emily's uncle. I said, "Kev, you smell somethin'?" He said, "Yeah, I smell it." I said, "It's us, cause we're the sh--." I mean, we just tortured this guy.

Keller: I think Hulk chose that moment to turn for a reason, because he knew he wanted to be cool again. He wasn't.
Hall: I mean, like I told you before, Hulk told me that when he was a [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon] and they were booing him, that sucks, man. That ain't a good feeling. It got to the point where they couldn't even put Hulk on TV because they were booing him. Nitro used to blow. Nitro used to suck. And they couldn't even put their highest paid guy on TV because the fans were booing. You know how marks get. Especially if they think they're getting to you, you're f---ed. If they think they're getting under your skin, you're really f---ed. But, I mean, to have 20 thousand people chanting, "Hogan sucks! Hogan sucks! Hogan sucks!" I mean, what do you do? I think Hulk made a very smart decision. I think he had seen what me and Kev were doin'. At that time, too, you gotta remember, he didn't know me and Kev. I had his attorney do my first contract, that Henry Holmes. He represents George Foreman, Pamela Anderson, Hulk, Mach, this dude is a celebrity lawyer. Then, all of a sudden, you know, it got **** -blocked. So one thing I will give Hulk props for, because one time I asked him, "Did you **** -block me on the Henry Holmes deal?" He said, "Yeah." I said, "I know you, man." He said, "I told him you can't represent him." I said, "I respect you for at least owning up to it." I just got a different lawyer.

Keller: You talked about what a shark tank WCW was. Hogan was used to shark tanks, and he wanted to protect his turf. And he is the ultimate self-preservationis t. And you guys came in, and you guys were hot. He knew he was getting booed. He was vulnerable. You may look back and think it's crazy to say this because Hulk is Hulk, but Hulk probably felt insecure at that moment that he was going to lose leverage, so you guys became his enemies, in a sense, and the best way to deal with that is to get on the team.
Hall: It wasn't always like a real sweet relationship. We had some ups and downs. I'm not gonna lie about it. I'm sure Hulk would say the same thing, and so would Kev. But, we realized that if we would put our petty differences aside and work as a unit that with Hulk's famous noteriety and me and Kev's ability - between the three of us, we were a strong f---ing package. We felt that way. The one thing I always learned, too, I learned early, early on when I broke in, if you act like you're the sh--, you are the sh--. Know what I mean? I learned when I first broke in, you're working as soon as you walk in the curtain. You don't wait for the bell to ring. As soon as you hit the curtain, you're on, you're workin'.

I'll never forget, my first match at Madison Square Garden, I wrestled Randy Savage. I'm standing there. I think I told you last time. My music's playing, and I'm f---ing nervous as f---. Oh my god, Madison Square Garden, Randy Savage, what the f---. And I'm beatin' Savage. Savage don't do no jobs. It's kind of a tense f---in' deal. I'm standin' there and Vince is right there with me. And I'm fixing to hit the curtain because my music has been playing for a little while. Vince said, "Let 'im wait." Let 'im wait." It was like a learning experience for me because I went, "Wow, you're f---n't right." If you act like you're the sh--, you are the sh--. Cause the fans don't know. They buy tickets to come and see a show. They want to see a show. They want to see [lexicon]stars[/lexicon]. A lot of people bury (John) [lexicon]Cena[/lexicon]. I don't know what your opinion is of [lexicon]John Cena[/lexicon]. When I watch him - I've always said, ideally you would be a good worker and be over, but it's better to be over. It don't do you no good to be a good worker. I don't mean to bury Brad Armstrong because he's a sweetheart and I love him to death. Brad Armstrong is one of the best workers in the history of this business, but never really was over, know what I mean? He could f---n' go an hour through with anybody, but he never really was over. I'm not criticizing [lexicon]John Cena[/lexicon] because I know he's just developing. I've only seen him a handful of times. He gets booed in towns. What's so funny is it's become hip to boo him. In the northern markets and down south they cheer him. They've almost made hit his gimmick that he don't give a f---.

Keller: He does what you just said - don't let them know they're getting under your skin.
Hall: Exactly. He comes out, he does his sh--. I think he sells pretty good. I think he just needs more ring time. I think he's one of the hottest things they've got going on. I was talking to Kev and I said, "What's the deal with [lexicon]Cena[/lexicon]?" He said, "You knoow, his merchandise sells more than anybody else's." So they might boo him, but they're buying his sh--.

Keller: I think the booing makes the fan base that he does have all the more defensive, so they want to go out and buy merchandise.
Hall: I used to always say that, too. I'd rather have people booing me than be quiet. I wrestled Shawn Michaels every day for almost two and a half years and Shawn Michaels, I was kind of a babyfae. We wrestled each other when we were both heels. But I was a [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon], he was a heel, but he a was pretty mother f---er. The chicks liked him. Guy hated him, chick's hated him. We had a great thing going on for two and a half years, every night, all around the world, but it was the same thing. Sometimes people would boo or cheer and it makes the other people get off their asses. If people started cheering Shawn, then the other people would start going, "Razor! Razor!" I agree with you. I used to think sometimes they should plant people in the audience. If you really want to get sophisticated, plant some people in the audience or just pipe it into the p.a. system, if you really want to get slick about it. Vince used to do it before. Before they went live, they used to send Gene Okerlund out and he'd go, "Ladies and gentleman, how many people are here to see the Ultimate Warrior?" People were like, "Yeahhhh!" They take a shot of the whole arena cheering. Then they'd say, "How many people are here to see Kamala?" They'd go, "Boooo!" Then, when you hit the aisle, they'd edit it all in. Kevin Dunn would edit all that sh-- in with people going, "Yeahhhh!" They called it sweetening. They'd turn up the cheers, turn up the boos. I don't know. I'm babbling again.

Keller: When the NWO [lexicon]angle[/lexicon] started, especially after Hulk Hogan joined it, and you're looking at the [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon] side, did you guys ever sit around and go, "Who are we going to wrestle?"
Hall: I gave Sting "The Crow" gimmick. We were standing next to each other in North Carolina and I'm slicking my hair back and he's sitting there in his neon sh--, but he's not dyeing his hair anymore. He's not bleaching it anymore. And he's letting his hair grow out. And I don't know Sting. He's always been a big deal. When I was in WCW before, I was a jabroni and he was a big star. I went to New York and I've only been (back in WCW) a week or two. So we're standing next to each other at the sinks in the locker room. I'm slickin' my sh-- back because I've gotta go do an interview or something. So Sting enters and I say, "You growin' your hair out, huh?" He goes, "Yeah." I said, "You still gonna wear the neon happy-guy stuff?" He goes, "Yeah, yeah." I said, "You ever see The Crow, man?" He went, "No, I didn't see it." I said, "You outta check it out, man. The guy kinda has his stuff drippin' down. I'm not telling you to trip off [lexicon]the Undertaker[/lexicon], but he kinda acts like [lexicon]Taker[/lexicon]." I told him that. And I tell ya' what, he gives me props for it. I will say this. Dallas's book, Sting's quote, he gives me props. He did it on Home Shopping Network one time, he gave me props. To me, that's all I need to know. I just want Sting to know I gave him that gimmick. That's the only satisfaction I need. I don't need none of your royalties or that bullsh--.

But talking about babyfaces to work with, at that time, we didn't care. We felt like our job was to just get over. Cause, the one reference Eric Bischoff always made was, he wanted it to be like­he always references the movie, "Independence Day." Cause remember how no matter what would happen, bam bam bam, all of a sudden this huge spaceship, even when you think the movie's over, the big spaceship rises up and the sh--'s still going on. That was Bischoff's deal. He wanted it to be like the NWO just was indestructible, indestructible, indestructible until the time was right. So we didn't care about heel, [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon], it doesn't f---in' matter. Just get over. So, we didn't really worry about opponents. We just tried to get over.

Keller: And really, for people who watched every single week and were waiting for the next chapter, it got a little repetitive.
Hall: I agree. It got stale. It was getting f---in' stale. Yet, everyone didn't want to miss the ending, so everyone kept tuning in over and over and over again. But it did seem like there wasn't that next chapter coming. There was no creativity. There was nothing going on. I remember going to Bischoff one time, going, "Eric, what the f--- are we doing? How come every time we gotta go off the air with something like a big [lexicon]brawl[/lexicon], like, tune in next week!" I asked, "How did you used to go off the air?" You used to go back to the announcers and they'd say, "Ladies and gentleman, tune in next week, blah blah blah, we're bringing you this and this and this and this." I said, "Why does it always have to be a hot finish? Why are we always going off the air with a f---in' big [lexicon]brawl[/lexicon]? Why don't you just do the sh--, then throw to the announcers, you know, and let them say, "Ladies and gentlemen, tune in next week and we'll bring you Dean Malenko vs. Rey Mysterio, blah blah blah.' What the f--- are you doin'? You keep building this thing. Just my opinion?

[Nefercheperur]

Keller: You had mentioned earlier that heels do not tell the truth, whether it's in wrestling or movies or whatever.
Hall: Well, I mean, ideally you don't because it just makes you a [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon].

Keller: Did you guys, though, not at times, if not a lot of the time, play into the fans' cheers and say things that you knew were cool and you knew the fans would cheer? This plays into what you just said about it being more important to be over than a heel or a [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon]. But you guys did that a lot. You guys were cast as heels, but if I'm a [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon], the last people I wanted to take on were you guys because you guys were good at getting cheered.
Hall: But see, the one thing that I will say is, like you said, we cared more about getting over. We always wanted to get over. And yeah, a lot of interviews were shoots. We would f---in' shoot with you and f---n' bury ya'. But you know what made us heels? We'd put you over. You could f---in' beat us 1-2-3, then we're gonna gang bang ya, then a bunch of f---in' NWO guys are going to hit the ring and we're gonna beat you up and we're gonna spray paint ya', but we did tons of jobs. So I think what makes you a heel is you lose. That's one thing, too, I've been watching a little bit of TNA, because they keep calling me, and what I think down there is a couple weeks ago I saw Christian do an interview and I never was really a big fan of Christian, but I saw him do an interview and I thought it was excellent. Of course, he was kind of burying Sting, but he told the truth. Everything he said, you kinda went, "Well, yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean." I think, you know, there are two ways to look at it. Business-wise, I'm sure Sting didn't like it, and business-wise you might go, well, what the f---, what the f---. At the same time, I'd rather have a guy over because to me, and I like Sting and I respect him and I give him all his props, but he's like luke warm. And to me, Christian is like the hottest thing they got in TNA. The one interview I saw him give, I was so impressed by, that if I knew him­I don't know him­but if I knew him, I would have called him and said, "What a f---n't interview." I would have liked to have called him and said, "Bro, f---in' way to go, keep it up." Because, I just think that's the way the business should be. I think that people should help each other and pass it on and give encouragement. He did an interview, it wasn't one of those in-the-ring interviews; he did a thing where he was sitting in the back and he just talked. He was excellent. It was a thing where he tuned on Sting a few weeks ago, and he was excellent. He was excellent.

Some of the other stuff I saw, sometimes I wanna pull for TNA, but I go, what the f--- are you doin'? Like, they did a match a few weeks ago where the LAX juiced A.J. ([lexicon]Styles[/lexicon]) and [lexicon]Christopher Daniels[/lexicon]. They got color in the first match of the night, which is cool. Okay, fine, everybody's getting color now; it's back in vogue. These guys are getting color. Fine. But they don't come back to them right away. A half hour later, they come to these guys in the locker room and they still got the juice. I'm thinking, no, man, you should have a bandage on and be cleaned up by now. Your shirt shouldn't be still ripped open; 30, 45 minutes have gone by. What the f--- are you doing? And I always hated things where they go­this is one of those things too where I used to talk about with Bischoff­when I first got there, they were doing an [lexicon]angle[/lexicon] where (Ric) Flair was with Elizabeth and they were spending Macho's alimony. I said, "Let me get this right, we're doing a f---in' alimony [lexicon]angle[/lexicon]? How negative can you get, Eric? What the f--- is this? It's supposed to be about winning and losing. It's not about, "I [lexicon]hate[/lexicon] you, I'm gonna kill you." Cause when they finally came to [lexicon]Daniels[/lexicon] and A.J. in the back, A.J. didn't talk, [lexicon]Daniels[/lexicon] talked. They talked about, "Next time somebody's gonna die!" What the f--- is that? Nobody's gonna die. What are you f---in' talkin' about. That's why when me and Shawn wrestled each other, our whole deal was, "I'm better than you." "No you're not." "Yes I am." "No you're not" "Yes I am" "Well, prove it." "Okay. I'll see you in the ring. I'll be that pretty mother f---er with the jet-black hair." It's all about winning and losing. I never understood all that, "I'm gonna kill you!" No you're not. I mean, and who wants their kids watching that kind of stuff? Get me back on track, man.

Keller: One [lexicon]babyface[/lexicon] who entered the picture and completely took over was [lexicon]Goldberg[/lexicon]. He walked in, didn't know much about wrestling, but had that look. He looked just enough like [lexicon]Steve Austin[/lexicon], had just enough charisma, had just enough size, and he was booked against a number of established guys and just walked right through them, one after another after another. And the fans liked him enough initially, he had enough charisma and he's beaten everybody like nobody's ever beat a anybody before, and he's over huge, but he can't work. And that's a problem. When it comes time for a competitive match, can [lexicon]Bill Goldberg[/lexicon] deliver? That was the problem.
Hall: Plus, he's a mark. He's a mark for himself. I hooked [lexicon]Bill Goldberg[/lexicon] up with my agent. He represents me, Kev, Kid, Hunter, Dusty, Jesse Ventura, ton of guys. Barry Bloom. I've got the guaranteed money from Turner. Anyway, his first road trip ever was Roanoke, Virginia. So I'm standing at the baggage carrousel. [lexicon]Goldberg[/lexicon]'s standing there. I don't know [lexicon]Goldberg[/lexicon], but he's standing there, I'm standing there. I said, "Who you riding with, man?" He said, "Oh, I'm by myself." I said, "Look man, I get free cars. Wanna ride with me? Ride with me if you want. I know where everything is." Because I've been to Roanoke 300 times. I know where the gym is, I know where the restaurants are, I know where the arena is, know what I mean? And [lexicon]Goldberg[/lexicon] is just a greenhorn. "So, you can ride with me if you want, bro. It's free." He went, "All right." Then we're renting a car and I said, "Look, I ain't know no ***** or nothin', but I get free rooms, too, so if you wanna room with me, it's all on Uncle Ted, so if you wanna room with me, cool. If you don't, I understand. But if you wanna save some dough, it's all on Uncle Ted. So we ride together. I'm talkin' to him and I know how people helped me when I started. People always talked to me and helped me learn how to work. I was around the Freebirds. When I was working for Verne, I had the pleasure of being around the Freebirds. I'm a huge Freebird mark. And they taught me how to work. I learned, like I was saying before, act like a star. Don't walk to the ring like a f---in' jabroni. F---in' walk to the ring like you're the f---in' sh--. I remember, too, one time Michael Hayes, I showed up at the show and I was, like, 15 minutes late. And I got screamed at. Michaels Hayes pulled me aside and said, "Hey, kid, if you're going to be late to a show, be an hour late. Then they'll just be so f---in' happy you showed up, they won't care." He said, "Don't show up 15 minutes late, dummy."

With [lexicon]Goldberg[/lexicon], what happened was, in my opinion, and I have to qualify everything by saying in my opinion­see, Eric's big criticism was all he did was buy Vince's talent. Eric broke out Turner's checkbook and bought Vince's talent. Eric never made anybody. Which was accurate. So, Eric not being that astute of a wrestling guy, took [lexicon]Goldberg[/lexicon] and then built him, but I was totally against the undefeated gimmick. I used to tell Eric, "Eric, if you make him undefeated, as soon as he does a job, he's dead. He needs to be human, vulnerable." But, that's how this whole [lexicon]Goldberg[/lexicon] thing actually started. The funny part was, when he did lose, it was me. I shocked him with a f---in' stun gun and Kev pinned him.

Keller: It seems like you guys were irritated by him. It sounds like you tried to create one, but he just resisted and didn't understand.
Hall: I think, I don't know, I can't speak for Bill. I respect Bill very much. I don't know him very well. I respect him. What he did was good. He sold merchandise and sold some tickets, but to me, had the NWO not been so hot­I mean, he came along at the perfect time. Had sh-- not been so red-hot, there would have been no [lexicon]Goldberg[/lexicon].

Keller: Did he appreciate that at all? Did he understand that he couldn't have walked in two years earlier or two years later and had the same success?
Hall: No way. In my opinion, no f---in' way. If he had come in there prior to the NWO, he'd have just been another f---in' jabrone. I remember one time talkin' to Bill before he began "[lexicon]Goldberg[/lexicon]!" He was just a regular guy and you could, like, talk to him. I hooked him up with Barry Bloom. I made him f---in' wealthy. I'm sitting there one time and he goes, "Man, a lot of people tell me I look too much like The Man." I said, "What?" He goes, "A lot of people tell me I look too much like Austin." I said, "I don't think so. Who gives a f---? F--- Austin. Do your deal. Who gives a f---? So what, you got a shaved head and a goattee and black tights and black boots? I said, f--- it, man. What are you gonna, grow your hair out?" I remember he actually came to me one time and said, "A lot of people tell me I look too much like The Man." I said, "Who?" He said, "Austin, back when Austin was red hot." I said, "I don't think so. I don't see it at all. F--- it." Bill was not a very good businessman, in my opinion.

Keller: How could he have been a better businessman. He made a lot of money in a short period of time?
Hall: Don't get me wrong. Yeah, he made a ton of money. I did not enjoy wrestling Bill. For that matter, I did not enjoy wrestling Austin, either. I did not enjoy wrestling Austin at all.

Keller: What about wrestling [lexicon]Goldberg[/lexicon] was not enjoyable?
Hall: See, I always thought, I'll never forget, when I first started wrestling Shawn (Michaels) and he came out of that Rockers gimmick and he was a tag team guy, and Marty f---ed off, so they're giving Shawn the singles push. Shawn used to have to do spots where Marty would dropkick and Shawn would dropkick a guy and then they'd both dropkick him and he'd take a [lexicon]bump[/lexicon], especially a guy my size. So when I started working with Shawn, I went, "Well, f--- that." I just started selling. I used to sell for Kid, anybody. Barry Horowitz, it doesn't matter. Like, punch me, bang, and I'll sell it. Because as long as the camera is on me, let me display my ability. The thing about Bill was, in my opinion, he became an cyborg. He didn't sell. Remember how the Road Warriors used to be? You piledrive them. They'd just stand up and go, "Wahhhhh!"

Keller: Who can't get over doing that?
Hall: Sure, but how much longevity are you gonna get out of that? Who can you work with? Know what I mean? After you squash everybody, you're f---n's over. So, in my opinion, that was the trap that Bill fell into. I don't want to say Bill didn't sell, but I want to say that he got a little caught up in the things and I think also he had so many people telling him things. You gotta remember, here's a guy who is really new to the business and he's on top and he's got a lot of guys feeding sh-- into his ear. He's got guys like me and Kev talking to him. Then he's got other guys saying, "Hey, don't trust those f---ers, they'll f---in' f--- you over, man." So he's got so much stuff going on in his mind that I think he was just green and, I don't know.

[DiViNo]

Hab jetzt das ganze Interview durch, hat zwar ein bisschen gedauert aber die Zeit nehme ich bei einem meiner All-Time Favs gerne auf mich.

Viele neue Sachen erfahren, z.B. bezüglich der Idee für seinen Namen und dem NWO-[lexicon]Angle[/lexicon].

Aber der Typ ist ja nur am Fluchen ... nee, nee

[Scott Hall]

Original von DiViNo
Hab jetzt das ganze Interview durch, hat zwar ein bisschen gedauert aber die Zeit nehme ich bei einem meiner All-Time Favs gerne auf mich.

Viele neue Sachen erfahren, z.B. bezüglich der Idee für seinen Namen und dem NWO-[lexicon]Angle[/lexicon].

Aber der Typ ist ja nur am Fluchen ... nee, nee

Vollständige Zustimmung und laß ihn doch fluchen. Er ist schließlich der Bad Guy!